Help setting up PLC

ECM

Member
Join Date
Jan 2009
Location
IA
Posts
11
Hi, Guys

New here and don't have any experience with PLC's. Do have electronics and electrical background, so that may help me. I can make machines do what I want with relays and switches but never got into using PLC's. So I was just looking for some advice.

What I would like to do is to control a 5000 gallon tank for my personal irrigation system with a PLC. Monitor the tank level and flow rates, turn valves on and off, start and stop the pump should a low level alarm triggers. Otherwise the pump is controlled by the irrigation timer.

I can buy a flowline controller to control the level of the tank with inputs from the high, medium and low level sensors. It would trigger a valve to start filling the tank when the water level gets down to the medium sensor and turn off the pump if the level should drop to the low sensor before the pump runs out of water. Then shut off the fill valve when the level reaches the high sensor.

But I wanted to take it one step further. I wanted to monitor the flow rates of the pump and the flow rate of the tank fill. Have the PLC then cycle the fill valve if the pump flow rate is less than the fill flow rate only if the pump is running.

Once my irrigation cycle is completed the PLC would count the fill rate until it reaches 300 gallons then shut off the valve for 2 hours and then start the process again, until the tank is full. So I don't over tax my well, since the well is a community well feeding 5 houses in my sub division.

So basically if the pump is running the tank will fill continuously, unless the pump is using water at a rate lower than the fill rate. Then it would cycle the fill rate. Once the pump shuts off the tank will fill at 300 gallon per cycles resting for 2 hours between cycles until the tank is full.

I was also thinking it would be nice to have the PLC giving me a read out of flows of each sensors, pump and valve status, tank levels on a monitor screen or HMI. Maybe I’m going a little over board here.

I know it’s getting a little complicated. The problem I have is not knowing what kind of PLC and modules I need also programming the PLC. I don't have access to software to program a controller. I don’t want to purchase software just for one job, so is there a simple solution. I can purchase the PLC and modules on Ebay so maybe it would not be to expensive to start with.

Would I be able to hire a firm for a small job like this, setting up the controller to read flows and do the programming if I wire everything myself? Or is there a way for me to do everything myself?


Anyone have any ideas?
 
sounds like a fun project - and one that you should be able to do yourself as long as time isn't a big issue ... you can probably pay for the software cheaper than you could get a contractor to do the programming for you - if you're willing to spend the time to learn to use it ...

first things first: make a DETAILED list of your I/O (inputs and outputs) ... nail down whether your analog sensors work on 4 to 20 mA or 0 to 10VDC, etc. ... what voltage are the valves, etc.? ... how many? ... nail down EVERYTHING that you're planning to hook up to the PLC ... if you don't know the answers to questions like these FIND OUT before (repeat: before) you buy the PLC ... some systems won't handle some functions ... you don't want to find out the hard way that you've spent your money on something that doesn't have all the features you need to get the job done ...

once that list is finished, post it here and the forum members will be delighted to help you along ...

next question: what type of budget do you have to work with? ... there's no reason for us to recommend toys (sorry - EQUIPMENT) that you can't realistically afford ...

next question: do you want to LEARN while you do this - or just "get it done" and enjoy the results? ...

good luck with your project ... and welcome to the forum ...
 
As far as my budget. I usually have no budget. I do these kinds of things because I find them fun and educational (if that answers your question) I purchase most everything on Ebay for a fraction of the new cost. So I can afford to do the projects I do. The most expensive part of this whole thing would be the PLC and HMI and possibly the software.

Inputs.

2 flow sensors: Tank fill in flow - Pump output flow.
3 float switches: High – Medium – Low (Could do away with these if the tank level transmitter would do the job of the switches. But feel it is more fail safe with the switches)
1 ultrasonic tank level transmitter.
1 input from pump. The relay that turns on the pump is powered by 24 Vac. Don’t know if AC is a problem or not.
1 Amp draw of the pump (Optional)

Here is a rundown on the inputs.

2 Signet flow transmitters. Outputs from transmitter can be either a 4-20 mA or 0-5 Vdc pulsed. Currently have 2 of the the 8500’s http://www.gfsignet.com/PDFs/8500%20manual.pdf

3 Float switches they are Flowline LV10-1201 pdf/LV10-M.pdf They are a reed switch controlled by a magnet and can be set to be either NO or NC.

1 Ultasonic tank level transmitter. This is 4-20 mA pdf/LA15-LA20-M.pdf

Pump on - off input. This is to know if pump is on for the fill cycles, unless this can be internally sensed by the PLC

1 Current transformer for pump. 4-20 mA Simular to this one. http://cgi.ebay.com/CR-Magnetics-CR...1QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1638Q2em118Q2el1247




Outputs:

Tank fill valve that can be 110 Vac or 24 Vac. Switched with a relay if need be. Have either voltage valves available.

Relay to stop the irrigation pump on low level alarm. The relay that starts the pump is now run off the irrigation controller and is 24 Vac.



Display HMI or monitor:

Tank level depth

GPM - Fill valve and Pump output.

Fill valve status (open- closed)

Pump status (on – off)



Irrigation system status (On – Off)

Amperage drawn of pump. Would be nice to foresee failure or restriction.

Total gallons counter of the fill input and pump output sensors (optional, manual resettable)

Let me know if I’m missing anything.


 
I know it’s getting a little complicated. The problem I have is not knowing what kind of PLC and modules I need also programming the PLC.


Anyone have any ideas?

The easiest to find and probably the most reasonable
would be a Micrologix 1200 with an analog module.
I also see older SLC 500's pretty reasonable.

For a HMI this is pretty kewl.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-E8NlUNiX4
 
Two other inputs will be a 2 pressure transducers that have built in transmitters. They are 4-20 mA also. Pressure on suction of pump and discharge. Would be nice to have he HMI display the pressures. Sorry is overlooked them.
 
Last edited:
Hi, Guys

New here and don't have any experience with PLC's. Do have electronics and electrical background, so that may help me. I can make machines do what I want with relays and switches but never got into using PLC's. So I was just looking for some advice.

What I would like to do is to control a 5000 gallon tank for my personal irrigation system with a PLC. Monitor the tank level and flow rates, turn valves on and off, start and stop the pump should a low level alarm triggers. Otherwise the pump is controlled by the irrigation timer.

I can buy a flowline controller to control the level of the tank with inputs from the high, medium and low level sensors. It would trigger a valve to start filling the tank when the water level gets down to the medium sensor and turn off the pump if the level should drop to the low sensor before the pump runs out of water. Then shut off the fill valve when the level reaches the high sensor.

But I wanted to take it one step further. I wanted to monitor the flow rates of the pump and the flow rate of the tank fill. Have the PLC then cycle the fill valve if the pump flow rate is less than the fill flow rate only if the pump is running.

Once my irrigation cycle is completed the PLC would count the fill rate until it reaches 300 gallons then shut off the valve for 2 hours and then start the process again, until the tank is full. So I don't over tax my well, since the well is a community well feeding 5 houses in my sub division.

So basically if the pump is running the tank will fill continuously, unless the pump is using water at a rate lower than the fill rate. Then it would cycle the fill rate. Once the pump shuts off the tank will fill at 300 gallon per cycles resting for 2 hours between cycles until the tank is full.

I was also thinking it would be nice to have the PLC giving me a read out of flows of each sensors, pump and valve status, tank levels on a monitor screen or HMI. Maybe I’m going a little over board here.

I know it’s getting a little complicated. The problem I have is not knowing what kind of PLC and modules I need also programming the PLC. I don't have access to software to program a controller. I don’t want to purchase software just for one job, so is there a simple solution. I can purchase the PLC and modules on Ebay so maybe it would not be to expensive to start with.

Would I be able to hire a firm for a small job like this, setting up the controller to read flows and do the programming if I wire everything myself? Or is there a way for me to do everything myself?


Anyone have any ideas?

Got kind of confused when you were talking about tank fill rate and pump rate less than tank fill.
So here is what I think
1. You have two pumps
-- a well pump which supplies the tank
-- an irrigation pump which is supplied by the tank
2. YOu do not want to overdraw the well so want to limit well pump run time

How many gallons per day do you use to irrigate?
What are the gpm and HP ratings of well pump and irrigation pump?

Could you run the well pump hour on to fill tank and hour off to recharge and repeat until tank full. Maybe do this only at night when other loads on well are at a minimum??

Dan Bentler
 
Last edited:
You can do away with the transmitter. If you use a switch for the low level shut off, and one for the tank fill, you can use the top one to shut off fill.

Figure out how long it takes to fill your 300 gallons, and use a timer for that, then another timer to wait for the next cycle. If you want this to be extremely reliable, base your function on solid IO, without using transmitters. You can have the transmitters, but if the goal is an irrigation project, you want reliability. Typically the transmitters will always show the same thing, pretty boring! Usage of pressure switches to identify line breaks or pump failure would help.

Use 24V for everything, relays in the pump starts, etc. The PLC can be either 115VAC or 24VDC.

Looking at your spec, I don't know how much water you will use. Let's say 4500 gallons. It would take about 3-4 days to fill your tank. That seems to be a little slow...
 
Got kind of confused when you were talking about tank fill rate and pump rate less than tank fill.
So here is what I think
1. You have two pumps
-- a well pump which supplies the tank
-- an irrigation pump which is supplied by the tank
2. YOu do not want to overdraw the well so want to limit well pump run time

How many gallons per day do you use to irrigate?
What are the gpm and HP ratings of well pump and irrigation pump?

Could you run the well pump hour on to fill tank and hour off to recharge and repeat until tank full. Maybe do this only at night when other loads on well are at a minimum??

Dan Bentler

1. Yes, two pumps.
2. Yes, again.

The irrigation controller is controlled be the moisture of the soil, and the evaporation rate. So the irrigation system may not run every day, and the amount of water is also varied according to the inputs from the sensors. When the irrigation system does run it will pump from 3-16 GPM depending on which zone is running. Will most likely only run every 3 days and at the least every 2 days.

So to answer your question of how many GPD is hard.

I’m not sure what the rating of the well pump is since it is a community well. I can only switch the fill valve on and off.

The irrigation pump is rated at over 50 GPM but will usually be pumping around 10 GPM or less, it is a 2HP, 220 V single phase. It is controlled by a 24 Vac relay switched by the irrigation controller.

The well pump I have no idea, since it is a community well.

The size of the tank will force me to fill it over most of a day. It is 3500 gallons, made a mistake above and originally said it was 5000. I have not determined my maximum fill rate yet, but would like to throttle it down so that it is not filling at the maximum all the time. Perhaps having two different size valves one for filling while the irrigation pump is running 10-15 GPM, if the extra volume is needed. One while the tank is filling on its cycles perhaps 5-10 GPM.

Yes, the tank can be filled during the night.
 
You can do away with the transmitter. If you use a switch for the low level shut off, and one for the tank fill, you can use the top one to shut off fill.

Figure out how long it takes to fill your 300 gallons, and use a timer for that, then another timer to wait for the next cycle. If you want this to be extremely reliable, base your function on solid IO, without using transmitters. You can have the transmitters, but if the goal is an irrigation project, you want reliability. Typically the transmitters will always show the same thing, pretty boring! Usage of pressure switches to identify line breaks or pump failure would help.

Use 24V for everything, relays in the pump starts, etc. The PLC can be either 115VAC or 24VDC.

Looking at your spec, I don't know how much water you will use. Let's say 4500 gallons. It would take about 3-4 days to fill your tank. That seems to be a little slow...
The tank level transmitter is to give me some visual reference to tank level. The tank also fills from rain water. If rain is forecasted I will shut down the filling cycles and let the rain fill the tank.

The reason I want to use flow sensors transmitters on the irrigation pump and the fill line for tank is to the tank is to control the fill according to the usage while the irrigation system is running. If the system is running at 16 GPM I want to continuously fill the tank. If the system is only using 3 GPM then fill it at a rate that will equal the usage. Say the irrigation is running 3 GPM for 10 minutes that would be 30 gallons. If the fill rate is 10 GPM then the PLC would turn on the fill valve for 3 minutes or until the 30 gallons is read from the fill transmitter. Or have two different valves for different fill rates like I mentioned earlier. So flow on the irrigation system would need to be read.

Like I said earlier the tank is 3500 gallons not 5000 like I originally posted. The irrigation system will most likely only run every other day. So there is plenty of time to fill with cycling the fill valve.

10 GPM fill rate takes about 6 hours to fill the 3500 gallons. Filling at a rate of 300 gallons per cycle would be ½ hour on, and then off for an hour. It would take 18 hours to fill the tank if it was completely empty. But it should never get much below the medium level switch if the fill rates are correctly programmed in the PLC
 
Go to AutomationDirect.com. Select the PLC (DL06) and look at what you need from there. Software and PLC with cables for less than $1000. Hard to beat this stuff.
 
Go to AutomationDirect.com. Select the PLC (DL06) and look at what you need from there. Software and PLC with cables for less than $1000. Hard to beat this stuff.

Thanks, I will take a look at them.
 

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