Magelis - I can't stands no more!

I have been forced to work w/ the Magelis HMI for the past three years.

The bugs in the development environment and runtime keep getting worse and worse.

I need to explore another avenue.

The most important features that I need are ...

1. Web Gate - remote viewing of hmi through internet browser.

2. Modbus TCP/IP communication to M340 plc

3. $1500 or less tft touchscreen, flash memory

Oh, and the boss man won't allow the Red Lions due to the numerous problems that he had w/ the harware over the years. Although, I love the software. Best I've seen yet. Minus the numerous usb driver installs and the firmware upgrades that break the modbus comms.

I'll bite my tongue, and suggest Siemens WinCC Flexible (!).

WinCC Flex is expensive, and very heavy to work with. The runtime on the other hand works flawlessly. The functionality is also quite well specced. It is also an advantage that it is from the biggest automation vendor, so you can be assured they can be supported for a long time.
I recommend the TP277 touch + smartservice option (for remote access vie the web), but you will arrive at a price of 2000 USD rather than your limit of 1500 USD. I think that MP277 is better still, but then you arrive at 2500 USD.

N.B. When you select Modbus TCP as the connection type in WinCC Flex, you get the possible CPU targets of 984, Compact, Quantum, Momentum, Premium, Micro. M340 is not mentioned. Not sure if that is really a problem. I am guessing that with Modbus TCP you just have to use Modbus addressing scheme (3x30001, 4x40001 etc).

ganutenator said:

I have been forced to work w/ the Magelis HMI for the past three years.

The bugs in the development environment and runtime keep getting worse and worse.

I need to explore another avenue.

The most important features that I need are ...

1. Web Gate - remote viewing of hmi through internet browser.

2. Modbus TCP/IP communication to M340 plc

3. $1500 or less tft touchscreen, flash memory

Click to expand...

Really ? we have Magelis projects of 100 pages or more with 7000 variables and i find them OK, much better than the Mitusbishi's (mainly software problems) i used to use.

EWhich version of Vijeo are you on ?

we have been using TP277 touch and we played with smartserver as well. it came in handy in some cases and it worked ok but you need to be aware of some things like:

- smartserver worked on all MP277 right away but there is a nag screen every few minutes until separate licence is installed.

- Siemens communication is very slow and HMI screens response times are bad enough even without smartserver running in the background (even on a smallest systems with only 50-200 tags). with the smartserver, things get even slower. don't connect to same HMI from more than one PC (web browser). when we tested two or three connections, HMI would stop responding all together or run very very slowly (one button press taking over three minutes which although "works", is still unusable).

- WinCC Flexible is one application that doesn't allow import/export of alarms etc.

- Win CC Flexible is very slow and takes lot's of PC resources

- there are serious compatibility problems, making maintenance a nightmare. for example WinCC Flexible has to match firmware of the unit you are working with and there is no option to install different versions side by side (Like RSLogix5000 from AB for example).

panic.
The problems with response timing, was that with TP277 or MP277 ?

edit: I dont have problems with tag updates on my panels.
You say you have problems even without the web server, so I suspect you have a slow PLC connection. With the webserver, the PLC connection have to serve so many more tags so that will aggrevate the problem.
I use ethernet when I can, and the MP277 is the first panel from Siemens since WinCC Flex came out that I really like.

I use the GT6330 and haven't had any real problems. Only the odd runtime download fault that can be reset by powering down and restarting. Oh, and forgetting to run the project from CF card and then having a laptop hard drive crash with no backup. Unfortunately there is no way to retrieve the project from the screen.

I even had a problem last week with a password. I sent Telemecanique a copy of the project that I had exported previously and they managed to extract the password, saving me a real headache.

Jon.

Try the Redlion G3 series.

Vijeo Designer is one of the best and easy to use softwares for HMI designing that I've used. The custom scripting is awsome. The only other software that I can think of that's up there is WinCC flexible.

If I had to name something negative about Vijeo Designer it would be the inability to change alarm messages in runtime.
(I found a way - scripting an alarmlog from scratch. It takes alot of tags and a big script and Isn't really worth it, but Schneider support was wrong )... Wich reminds me of another plus - where I come from Schneider support can't be beat.

The Exter T100 has everything that you are asking about...and more.

You can view through a web browser, email from the screen, set up an FTP.

Information can be viewed through this web page:

http://www.hitech-america.com/exter/et100.php

It is over your price target, but offers exceptional graphics.

There is a starter kit available also.

We have used a couple of the Exters on customer applications and will be using a T100 for the first time in development.

If you truly don't require web access, there is the H-T100 that will be closer to your price target.

http://www.hitech-america.com/h-series/ht100/ht100.htm

Hope this helps.

God Bless,

http://flash.ezautomation.net/eztouch/eztouch_overview.htm

of course $1500 or less would depend on screen size

I like "Proface" AGP screens. The last one I got was £1100 for a 10 inch tft.

I may be wrong but aren't Magelis screens rebranded Proface screens?

Jon.

Thanks Jesper,

I don't see how bandwidth should be a problem in this case. The units are MP277 (mobile pendant 277) and they are on ProfiNet (4 nodes - CPU, HMI, 2x IM151-3 for ET200S I/O) or in case of ProfiBus, it's 12mbps and HMI is TP177B (only three nodes - CPU, HMI, 1xCU320). The way I see it, looks like any other HMI on RS232 running on 9600 or 19.2kbps.

One can specify the refresh time for each tag (100ms, 1sec, etc.) but 100ms is pushing it even for few tags. The problem is not that HMI can't keep up with users expect (or me for that matter). Problem is that when it can't keep up, it doesn't show proper message. One unplug communication cable for example and any decent HMI will show proper message within second or so (but not Siemens HMIs).

We also tried different HMIs while in Siemens classroom (during WinCC Flex training). It's all the same - it works but it's sluggish and "that's the way it is...".

Here is my .02

I would check into the Horner NX units. www.heapg.com We are using a number of these and they seem to support all the criteria you have outlined.

They support 2 different methods of gathering the data, one is useing the built in web interface and the other is a version of software they sell call CSCAPE-RV (I think it is the RV version but it might be the other which is why I gave you the web site.)

They support Modbus, we have it talking to both Nanos and Twidos. They also just released a version of protocol that talks to the Mitsubishi Q and A series. Which we have also used and it works well.

Has built in TCP/IP and we use Kepware talking Modbus to gather data from the units.

They have a removable media port which you can store and load to from ladder.

The software to program them is free and they seem to be flexible and upgradable.

Just something to check into. they also have the TIU series which is nothing more than a display where as the NX are display and PLC all in one.

Have a great day and good luck.

ganutenator said:

I have been forced to work w/ the Magelis HMI for the past three years.

The bugs in the development environment and runtime keep getting worse and worse.

I need to explore another avenue.

The most important features that I need are ...

1. Web Gate - remote viewing of hmi through internet browser.

2. Modbus TCP/IP communication to M340 plc

3. $1500 or less tft touchscreen, flash memory

Click to expand...