BMS-Burner Management System

antonischer

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Join Date
Nov 2008
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Jakarta
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Dear all,

I have to work with Honywell RM7800L1012 with my Controllogix L61. The problem is I cant find clear explanation how RM7800 work so I can accomodate the logic in PLC

Does anyone know the good literature on burner management concept?

Thanks
 
Antonischer,

If your are using the Honeywell RM7800 BMS for a gas burner, here in the U.S., the various government regulators forbid intercepting or changing any outputs from a burmer management controller.

However, you can safely feed the BMS inputs and outputs into your Controllogix and use it for monitioring of the BMS, and for giving Start and Stop commands to the BMS controller. You should not, in any way, try to change the BMS outputs with the Controllogix program.

The basic functions of a typical Burner Management System relay:
1. Before burner start-up, the BMS monitors input sensors to determine if it is safe to start the burner.
2. Then if a start command is issued, the BMS does a purge to blow out any gas fumes that may have accumultated.
2. After purging, the ignition cycle is initiated. It may consist of opening a pilot valve, energizing a spark transformer, and watching for a flame (input from a flame detector).
3. If a pilot flame is detected, and all safety interlocks are still in safe position, then the main gas valve is opened. If there is an unsafe condition (as determined by the input interlock switches), the cycle is terminated.
4. During operation, the BMS continues to monitor safety input switches, such as the combustion air blower, and the furnace air circulation fan, and others. If any failures happen, the gas valves are closed.

You can go to customer.honeywell.com (use link below)and find a descriptive brochure and installation instructions about the Honeywell 7800 Burner Relay. Page 4 of the Installation Manual is a schematic electrical diagram of the Model 7800.

http://customer.honeywell.com/Honeywell/CatalogNavigator.aspx?Definition=Search&Catalog=&ChannelID=%7BB914384F-AA6A-4EBC-9F67-9885840123A2%7D&ReturnUrl=http://customer.honeywell.com/Honeywell/UI/Templates/CMSTemplates/NewsAndEvents.aspx?NRMODE=Published%26NRNODEGUID=%7B73CCF7FE-0818-449F-B57F-B8E78921AF26%7D%26NRORIGINALURL=/Business/Cultures/en-US/News+and+Events/Product+Information/Burner+and+Boiler+Controls.htm%26NRCACHEHINT=Guest
 
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The S7800 is responsible for checking presence of flame signal from a flame detector and responsible for safety shutdown in the absence of flame, gas pressure, or any number of interlock discretes.

The S7810M MODBUS™ MODULE communicates with S7800 burner controllers is a plug-in module for S7800 series that communcicates via Modbus RTU over RS-485.


Link to S7810M1003 manual with Modbus:
http://customer.honeywell.com/Honey...ell.com/honeywell/ProductInfo.aspx/S7810M1003
 
Dear all,

thank you for information.
@Lancie: Is it means in US regulation we can not take bms output (alarm, low fire, hi-fire, main valve, pilot valve, ignition) into PLC input and manipulate the output to drive the real device (igniton, valves, etc)?

regards,

Anton
 
Anton,

Yes. In the US, the BMS is solely responsible for the control of a burner.
A PLC may be used to monitor, but can not control a burner.
 
Anton,

That is the normal case. I have heard of a few hardy souls who got their PLC and program certified to be a BMS. It takes a lot of time and work, and is not usually worth the effort. Besides, once certified, you cannot make ANY program or wiring changes without recertification. But the ability to change is the reason to use a PLC in the first place! So it is best to use an off-the-shelf approved and safe BMS.
 
Anton,

Just so there is no confusion, A PLC program can be used to control a variable rate firing valve, so that the furnace termperature may be controlled by the PLC, but the shut-off function of the BMS controller must not be bypassed. In other words, the burner control relay still controls the main gas shutoff valve, while the PLC can safely be used to control the variable rate of gas flow.
 
Anton,

Just so there is no confusion, A PLC program can be used to control a variable rate firing valve, so that the furnace termperature may be controlled by the PLC, but the shut-off function of the BMS controller must not be bypassed. In other words, the burner control relay still controls the main gas shutoff valve, while the PLC can safely be used to control the variable rate of gas flow.

Lancie
From my limited experience with boiler controls
1. You do not make any non factory spec'd changes
2. Modern boiler controls can control almost any feature you want high fire, low fire, oxygen content in exhaust stack etc etc.

PLC control of boiler would be slick in that all controls are in one box and not a bunch of specialized modules to control chemical injection with the monitoring, load control / balancing, forced and induced draft fan speed control, fire control, feed flow, etc etc.

The controls themselves are not really all that complicated nor is the algorythm BUT the liability and politics on boilers is a can of worms.

It seems best to me in his case for him to rely on the guys who have built these for years. Here in USA with the fire marshall, the govmt boiler inspector, the insurance boiler inspector and the environmental air quality people it is best to leave this stuff alone. The insurance guy can pull the insurance policy on the spot and if serious enough get the city / govmt guy out there and pull the switch.

I cannot see any justification to have a PLC monitor a boiler EXCEPT to let production know steam pressure is OK and boiler is up to temp and able to carry the load.

Dan Bentler
 
My whole job is boiler control with PLC's. PLC's are used all the time to monitor the boiler status, provide lead/lag control, PID firing rate controls, alarm annunciation, and many additional features that the standard burner control can't provide. Some of the more sophisticated burner controls can implement some of the same lead/lag and firing rate control as a PLC through native serial protocols.

Standard burner controls (called flame safeguards), such as the Honeywell RM7800/40 series and Fireye E-series provide sequencing through the ignition process and are not able to be manipulated through serial communication. These controls time a prepurge, either open damper or closed damper, ignite and prove a pilot flame, ignite and prove a main flame, and monitor the flame in the run state. Any interruption or problem results in a unique fault code.

The serial communications available only allow a few writes: command the boiler OFF (default without comms is ON), command the boiler ON at low fire, or command the boiler on at high fire. Any other firing rate control for a modulating burner with these controls needs to be done with an analog 0-135ohm or 4-20mA signal, depending on the modulating motor used. Older Honeywell mod motors commonly accepted a 4-20mA signal through a 66.5 ohm resistor and a 237 ohm resistor that converted the signal, but the newest revision doesn't work with these. A 4-20mA mod motor can also be used. Many values can be read, including all current status, fault codes, and complete fault history. Most of my experience is with the Honeywell FSG. Also, the S7810M is no longer necessary for Modbus, as the newest S7800A KDM (keyboard display module) has integrated Modbus. You used to have to choose between display and Modbus, and would often go on service calls only to find the Modbus module removed and a KDM in it's place. Modbus implementation with either device is pretty standard and uses 4x registers only.

Advanced FSG's also provide what is known as parallel positioning, or linkageless control. Parallel positioning allows a characterized fuel curve that is commissioned to maximize efficieny, through programmed servos and/or VFD's connected individually to each fuel valve, the air mixture, and the flue gas recirculation. These units also connect together to provide sequencing when desired. These units may allow direct firing rate control through serial communications in addition to start/stop control. Manufacturers include Autoflame, Fireye, Honeywell, and Siemens.

Cleaver-Brooks also has provided their own flame safeguard/parallel positioning systems using SLC500 PLC's programmed through a touch screen to provide the control. This is not common since the UL process for this is very rigid and the liability high. This would normally only be done by a manufacturer that did not want to purchase one of the proven systems, for whatever reason. My company has made UL listed flame control panels, which differ in that they still use another listed flame safeguard for the actual burner controls, otherwise they are very similar to regular burner control panels or any other UL508 panels. We can use PLC's for any logic or relay replacement as necessary in these panels as long as none of the safety features are bypassed or it fails safe. All of the safeties and outputs need to be directly connected to their destination on the FSG without interposing logic.

To sum this all up, PLC's are used all the time in boiler control, but usually in the same way any control contractor would run a boiler - start/stop, firing rate, run status, and fail status.
 

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