Directsoft5 - Inversion of Output?

wildcatherder · May 29, 2009

I am trying to program some step indicators. I use Y outputs to trigger indicator "lamps" on a touch panel. When the first step finishes, I want to invert the sense of lamp. (This is just a development step. The outputs will be used as trigger events for an EDRUM. I suppose I could use and X contact on a parallel rung with the Y, just for the indicator.

Unfortunately, the "adding-a-slash-for-inversion" technique does not appear to work on an output. I can insert a normally closed version of the Y element in the middle of a rung, but then it does not seem to be interpreted as an output.

Also unfortunate, the DS-250-1 instruction set does not include NOT.
(Also, you can't search for NOT in the help, even though it is in the INDEX. If you try to search for NOT in a PDF of the manual, you get every word with NOT embedded: another, note, etc.)

wildcatherder · May 29, 2009

I am using a Greater Than output from a CMP instruction (SP62) to signal the end of a stage. I've even tried inverting the sense of that output on a separate rung:

SP62 Y21
-----|/|---------------------------------------(out)

but that gets flagged as a fatal error at the SP62.

I know there has to be a way to do this.

wildcatherder · May 29, 2009

The Y21 should be over the "Out". (Apparently the parser for the forum removes extra white space.)

Brian123 · May 29, 2009

wildcatherder said:
I am trying to program some step indicators. I use Y outputs to trigger indicator "lamps" on a touch panel. When the first step finishes, I want to invert the sense of lamp. (This is just a development step. The outputs will be used as trigger events for an EDRUM. I suppose I could use and X contact on a parallel rung with the Y, just for the indicator.

Unfortunately, the "adding-a-slash-for-inversion" technique does not appear to work on an output. I can insert a normally closed version of the Y element in the middle of a rung, but then it does not seem to be interpreted as an output.

Also unfortunate, the DS-250-1 instruction set does not include NOT.
(Also, you can't search for NOT in the help, even though it is in the INDEX. If you try to search for NOT in a PDF of the manual, you get every word with NOT embedded: another, note, etc.)

Page 5-19 shows the NOT instruction as being available in the 250-1. I found it by clicking "Contact" in the edit pallet and clicking on "Program control".

When you use a Y register (Ys are physical outputs on a PLC) in a STR instruction address (STR is the -| |- instruction), it is used as a condition for that rung's output. In other words if you had STR Y1, OUT Y2 in a rung; Y2 would be on if output Y1 is currently on.

Brian

wildcatherder · May 29, 2009

The last technique worked. I had somehow erased the END command, which gives a fatal error ...every...single...time.

Brian123 · May 29, 2009

wildcatherder said:
The Y21 should be over the "Out". (Apparently the parser for the forum removes extra white space.)

If you go to the advanced reply screen (click the "Go Advanced" button at the bottom of the Quick Reply area), there is a button that looks like a pound # sign. If you put your ascii art in the CODE tags that appear, the forum won't mess with the spacing.

wildcatherder said:
The last technique worked. I had somehow erased the END command, which gives a fatal error ...every...single...time.

Gotta have that END

Brian

wildcatherder · May 29, 2009

OK, I tried typing NOT when I was on the last column of the rung, as an output that didn't work.
I tried to find it as a BOX with no luck. As mentioned, I searched help, manual and internet with no luck. Now Why? didn't I think to look under Coil?

I'm not sure about the nomenclature of your last advice.
Is STR Y1, OUT Y2

the same thing as
.....Y1..................Y2
---| |------------(Out)

?

Brian123 · May 29, 2009

wildcatherder said:
OK, I tried typing NOT when I was on the last column of the rung, as an output that didn't work.
I tried to find it as a BOX with no luck. As mentioned, I searched help, manual and internet with no luck. Now Why? didn't I think to look under Coil?

Keep in mind that BOXs and COILs are items meant to go in the output column (spot that the NOP is in) and CONTACTs are meant to go ahead of those. The NOT instruction is meant to be ahead of an output and is, therefore, a contact.

I'm not sure about the nomenclature of your last advice.
Is STR Y1, OUT Y2

the same thing as
.....Y1..................Y2
---| |------------(Out)

?

Yes. STR is the mnemonic for Normally Open Contact. This is how it is abbreviated in the CrossReference View and the Mnemonic view. It is also the title of the instruction in the manual.

Brian

Brian123 · May 29, 2009

Also, I don't know if the NOT instruction has a keyboard shortcut. I don't know about other programmers here, but I have never used it myself. I can't say I have ever seen it used in the programs I have run across here. Not to say it shouldn't be used; but it is rare.

Brian

wildcatherder · May 29, 2009

I was referring to the Boolean meaning of NOT and applying it to contact state. You would probably say converting-NO-to-NC.

wildcatherder · Jun 5, 2009

Now this is a weird one.

I literally have

..Y10.............................................................Y11
.|/|..............................................................(Out)

and yet the data view and my indicators show that Y10 and Y11 both have the same state.

I searched through the whole ladder without finding another occurrence of Y11.

I then tried

..Y10.............................................................C12
..| |.........|>o...............................................(out)

(that's the NOT operator in the middle there.)
and the same thing is happening!
Y10 and C12 have the same state.

This is boggling my mind and I could sure use some help.
I won't be back on this job until next Thursday 11 Jun 09.

wildcatherder · Jun 5, 2009

OK. The second one worked.

I'm still not used to typing something in and having the inversion "automatically" appended to it, because the previous entry was inverted. so I still have the original inversion in the second example and it didn't work because of the double-negative.

Brian123 · Jun 5, 2009

wildcatherder said:
Now this is a weird one.

I literally have

..Y10.............................................................Y11
.|/|..............................................................(Out)

and yet the data view and my indicators show that Y10 and Y11 both have the same state.

I searched through the whole ladder without finding another occurrence of Y11.

I then tried

..Y10.............................................................C12
..| |.........|>o...............................................(out)

(that's the NOT operator in the middle there.)
and the same thing is happening!
Y10 and C12 have the same state.

This is boggling my mind and I could sure use some help.
I won't be back on this job until next Thursday 11 Jun 09.

Be aware that the status indicators show power flow, not a hard device is on, device is off indication. Take a look at the attached screen shot. C3501 bit is off. The first rung does not show highlighting because power would not be flowing at that spot in the rung. In the second rung, the contact is a NC, so power would be flowing in that spot and it highlights it. You may be aware of that, but it can be non-obvious the first time you run across it.

I see that you already checked out the other possibility of multiple OUTs to the same Y address. Kudos for thinking of that.

The only other common thing to check is that you are in fact in run mode.

Brian

Directsoft5 - Inversion of Output?

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