Writing Plant Specs

I must write a plant spec sheet for the electrical and automation of our equipment for machinebuilders and vendors to follow.

I also must write a machine spec from the plant spec and i have about 8 weeks to creae them.

Does anyone have any sample documents they would share or templates?

Have any of you done this for a customer or in your plant before?

The main concept is each time we get new equipment it has different drives,plc,hmi and such in it.

What we want is something to give to the supplier stating what type of plc,drive and hmi it shouls have as well as the way safety circuits should be laid out and even down to the detail levels of what relay and base to use and how the prints should be.

We want to do this to have common platforms,reduce inventory for spares,

As well as reduce traing costs and eliminate the need to buy new programming software and provide plc training for each new machine we get.

Kid

This is a dream for almost anyone you care to pick. The best example may be automotive 100,000 cars off line and almost all exactly same.

I think in one way this will be an easy project - you are the only one doing it - no committee - arguments etc etc.
END OF OPTISM -- START REALITY
There is no doubt you are going to have an argument - the choice is whether it is done up front or after you have put in all the work only to have someone else chew it up.

If you are building equipment in your own shop it may be easier to accomplish. Vendors may not be willing to change equipment to your specs.

No single manufacturer makes all components nor do they make the best clear across their entire product line - would be nice though.
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One simple one all control panels will be at least 36" above floor and top no more than 7 feet - 3 foot all way around at least in front. Clearance is required by NEC but is most flagrantly violated.

I think the place to start is with power supplies ie 450 or 230 3 phase 277 240 or 120 single phase etc.

After that choose which kind of overcurrent protection you want ie circuit breaker or fuse.

I think a good thing would be to locate as much as possible disconnects in the same position relative to operator station.

PLCs gets a little more complicated because of their many applications but you may be able to boil it down to two or three types ie robot, motor control, temperature control etc. Definitely I would stay with one manufacturer if possible.

Control circuits at the start seem easy to pick
low voltage protection (ie dropout on loss of power and no restart) or with automatic restart - example lighting. In most cases I do not think it a good idea to automatic start motors after power loss.

I think I have gotten lost in a maze. Lets hear some other thoughts.

Dan Bentler

Well i know for plc's it will be contrologix all the way even in small applications.

Hmi will be a 10 inch or 17 inch versaview / panel pc.

Contrologix chasis will be a 10 slot or 17 slot on all applications

All drives will be powerflex 700 which should encompass our entire motor range now and in the near future.

I want a standard for terminal blocks no idea there yet.

I want to use a DPDT relay 10 amp for all applications you should be able to make that work anywhere and just have a 24 vdc and a 120 vac model. Still trying to decide on the octal style or one of the blade styles? Any opinions?

I guess i am looking for some kind of professional / legal looking document to use as a template or example.

Any ideas where to find something like that.

This is just me doing this project and my boss is backing me so pretty much whatever i choose i will get with very little objection that will help.

To do this right, you will need to supply your available short circuit current at the connection point. Your panel/machine builder MUST have circuit breakers/fuses rated to interrupt the available 3 phase bolted fault. In addition, you should also have them perform an arc flash analysis on the cabinet/main breaker.

You should have a detailed plant electrical system diagram that will provide all this information. If you don't have one, then to me that is a priority to get done. You can go through the SKM Powertools class and get their software. It is very cumbersome for the novice and will take quite a bit getting used to, but once mastered, it is very powerful.

I would concentrate on this before the plant equipment spec. To me, this is much more important, especially if you've even seen a starter fail to interrupt the fault.

leitmotif said:

Kid

This is a dream for almost anyone you care to pick. The best example may be automotive 100,000 cars off line and almost all exactly same.

I think in one way this will be an easy project - you are the only one doing it - no committee - arguments etc etc.
END OF OPTISM -- START REALITY
There is no doubt you are going to have an argument - the choice is whether it is done up front or after you have put in all the work only to have someone else chew it up.

If you are building equipment in your own shop it may be easier to accomplish. Vendors may not be willing to change equipment to your specs.

No single manufacturer makes all components nor do they make the best clear across their entire product line - would be nice though.
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Click to expand...

+1 Dan

And you know who will upset the apple cart? Purchasing! In the case of a pre-engineered machine, a purchasing agent won't want to pay extra for the machine to be customized to fit a specification. This "Standard" specification has to come along with the acknowledged fact that there will be additional expense involved and that the list of vendors willing to adhere to a specification will get smaller. /rant

Kid

I think we need to do a bucket of cold water on this and or reality check.
1. Is this just your idea and or the guys you work with. If so as correct and righteous as you are it probably will not work. however you may be lucky and have better management than I.
2. IF management wants this find out if they are just talking. What kind of budget have they allocated to this, support resources (computer, secretary admin etc). Money is proportional to management support.
3. Purchasing can be a hurdle. Those that have been around start to listen to maintenance and understand concept pay more up front for long term savings.
4. I think you should start an Excel file and keep track of suggestions. Several have been made that I did not think of.

5. I agree with Bruce you need a drawing of plant distribution in the shop showing all breker panels and load distribution centers UPS emergency gensets etc etc. In addition I would ensure that machines / control panels with multiple power supplies be labeled for where to turn them off - include power water air hydraulics etc. Arc flash for sure. As you identify machine and power source location make up an Excel spreadsheet for this. This will let you identify all loads on a panel or identify where to turn all utilities off to a machine. Pick one ceiling light in your house and find out which breaker turns it off for an exercise.

I think you have a huge advantage in that you are young and are not yet convinced that you cannot win mission impossible. This is a daunting and major undertaking. I think if you succeed in covering all contingencies you will be first. Properly done it can save someones limb save bunches of money AND
YOU can sell the program, retire and live off the proceeds.

Dan Bentler

standards

Kid, sit down and listen. The first time I tried this, I was given 12 weeks. Four years later, no approved document, we were tweeking and adjusting parts and "evolving" into a small book no person could read in one sitting. The second time I got smart. I involved electical and instrument personel with operators and supervisors. We even tried to get purchasing on line. I was given four months and the complete support of management. Two years and many hours head banging, a first draft was available to management. Purchasing wanted veto on anything that exceeded a value based on the history of purchasing. No numbers, just "a value" determined by the warehouse supervisor. The electrical department wanted to change the drives from G3 to Mitz A500. The operators did'nt like Allen Bradley pilot lights and wanted Cutler Hammer. Etc etc etc......

There are companies that do this. Teck Cominco Trail BC is one example. They can be quite anal about what gets on the property. It takes years and many support people to get to this point. Start small, PLCs, drives, print format and numbering. Get people on your side. Dont just say this is best, show them by documentation. Expand to control devices then to HMI. As you document, you may be surprised to find a better product on the market. Suggest a trial of this product, then see if the product delivers. You need to learn return on investment vs cost in the operation. Where is the management thinking, are they looking ahead? or just maintaining costs at a fixed level.
Good luck, I hope things work out for you.

I agree with the others, to some degree, but still, I have found that having at least a ball-park sheet I can send out to equipment builders / control's builders, we can eliminate a lot of the 'Surprises' that can happen on delivery.

It seems almost silly, but if we don't have the basics in writing, things always need to be reworked on receipt of the equipment. Some bullet points I cover are:

Control Voltage
Control Voltage Distribution
Drives (brand/type)
PLC / Networks
ESTOP-Loop Wiring and Operation
Acceptable operator devices
Graceport Requirements
Contactor types
Device Mounting (you wouldn't believe how this can get screwed up)
Heat Exchangers
Free Space which MUST be left on each panel when all components are mounted
Grounding
Wire/Terminal numbering conventions

and the most important 'Big Three'...

ALL DRAWINGS MUST BE PROVIDED ON PAPER AND AUTOCAD DWG Format, ONE SHEET PER PAGE.

ALL PLC's AND HMI's MUST BE PROVIDED WITH FULL SOURCE CODE, and NO OEM LOCKS OR PASSWORD PROTECTION.

ALL BIDDERS MUST SIGN OFF ON THIS DOCUMENT BEFORE QUOTING.

I think RDRAST has a pretty good start to a list for standards, ours is similar. I do like to specify color codes for field wiring also, makes it a lot easier when its time to work on it.

leitmotif said:

Kid

I think we need to do a bucket of cold water on this and or reality check.
1. Is this just your idea and or the guys you work with. If so as correct and righteous as you are it probably will not work. however you may be lucky and have better management than I.
2. IF management wants this find out if they are just talking. What kind of budget have they allocated to this, support resources (computer, secretary admin etc). Money is proportional to management support.
3. Purchasing can be a hurdle. Those that have been around start to listen to maintenance and understand concept pay more up front for long term savings.
4. I think you should start an Excel file and keep track of suggestions. Several have been made that I did not think of.

5. I agree with Bruce you need a drawing of plant distribution in the shop showing all breker panels and load distribution centers UPS emergency gensets etc etc. In addition I would ensure that machines / control panels with multiple power supplies be labeled for where to turn them off - include power water air hydraulics etc. Arc flash for sure. As you identify machine and power source location make up an Excel spreadsheet for this. This will let you identify all loads on a panel or identify where to turn all utilities off to a machine. Pick one ceiling light in your house and find out which breaker turns it off for an exercise.

I think you have a huge advantage in that you are young and are not yet convinced that you cannot win mission impossible. This is a daunting and major undertaking. I think if you succeed in covering all contingencies you will be first. Properly done it can save someones limb save bunches of money AND
YOU can sell the program, retire and live off the proceeds.

Dan Bentler

Click to expand...

Dan

This a project that the plant manager requested.

I have full management backing and purchasing does not have anything to do with what equipment we get.Engineering handles all the order submissions for equipment and projects we have purchasing people that work for engineering.

They have allocated time and budget to do this as we currently have nothing and are stuck with what the oem normally uses.

Which is killing our maintenance operations ability to support all these different brands.

Kid

OK sounds like you are on a roll. You even have purchasing working for engineering - lot better than reverse.

You have received a bunch of good suggestions. Make up that Excel spreadsheet and then prioritize to pick off which project to do first. You cannot eat the elephant in one gulp. I think I would pick a simple one and do it as a learning pilot project mistake finder and go from there onto bigger and more complex.

Dan Bentler

If there is even the SLIGHTEST chance that water can enter any of your conduits, you will want to spec that no conduits be terminated into the top of any control cabinet (especially above a PLC!).

If a conduit runs to/from outside the building, water can get into it. If it is in a wash-down area, well, I'm sure you get the idea.

You can grant individual exceptions if and when they make sense, but I've found this a very good rule-of-thumb. I've seen AC circuits work just fine totally submerged. DC will corrode in seconds if water is introduced.

Good luck, you've bitten-off a huge amount of work. If drawings AND specs are involved, be sure to determine which takes precedence. I put some things in the specs that should have gone on the prints, and therefore became "extra work".

Best,

Bill

rdrast said:

ALL DRAWINGS MUST BE PROVIDED ON PAPER AND AUTOCAD DWG Format, ONE SHEET PER PAGE.

Click to expand...

And make sure to get a set of "as built" drawings.

It may not be relevant but, IMHO, it would be a good idea to also enforce a standard nomenclature for all equipment. For instance I've seen this: LRC15*, M-15, P-15 (conveyors) - depending on who installed what - all referring to basically the same type of component. It's a small thing but the maintenance people will appreciate it.

* Live Roller Curve

My $0.02

One size does not fit all.

If you pad the standards to the max, then you will spend too much money on small projects. If you leave the standards to open, then large scale projects will wind up in a "finger-pointing" debacle, with you, the end user eating all of the costs to make it "manufacturing-reliable".

At minimum, I think safety is paramount. It does cost a little more, but it can weed out "old-school" automation vendors, that are unaware of newer codes and standards.

A code is a law. Follow the money, if an injury occurs, and a code is observed to be in violation, monies will be paid and crimininal issues arise.
NFPA 70 National Electrical Code is typically adopted by most local authorities. NFPA70 does not cover most machine tools, other that supply feeders and required nameplate information.

NFPA 70E Electrical Safety In the Workplace, compliance may probably be being driven by your employers insurance provider.

NFPA79 Industrial Controls is a STANDARD and not an enforceable code. But in a "legal" based society, lawyers will bring to light that there are "consensus standards" that are created by orginizations like ANSI, NFPA, and other "trade-specific" groups, as strong reccomendations. If a machine builder is not aware of these, there can be serious hazzards present.

Summary, don't nit-pick terminal blocks, or HMI's, but toss down some gnereic standards that will land a project with a vendor who is "up-to-date". They will most likely give you a soulution that is sound, and have products that are readily available and easy to work with as they are current, and economical. You may want to allow your vendors to bring a small variety of equipment to the party, keep in mind they are trying to eek the maximum amount of value for the least amount of money spent. If they show up with a good solution from a lower cost supplier, you can also migrate toward that for future purchasing decisions.

I know the plant manager seems to hold all of the keys, but as others have pointed out, Purchasing holds the checkbook.

And ultimately, your customers are asking for the most amount of product for the least amount of money.

Some of these are problems i don't have.

Purchasing has no say in this at all as all of our AFE requests are approved by the company president and once he sings of on an AFE for a certain dollar amout it is law.

We just have to make sur that our original request is large enough to complete the project with some room but not so large that it will not get approved.

We put in a new machine last year that nended up costing 18.3 milion and change and our afe was for 19.1 so we had money left for some spares,software and traing classes for the new components.

The original design of this machine used mitsubisui plc and hmi and parker ssd drives which we did not want.We ended up changing to panel pc with rsview se,contrologix processors,ethernet ip comms,rslogix 5000 installed on the panel pc for troubleshooting at the machine without a laptop and powerflex 700s phase 2 drives with drive logix,remote access,

we could have pulled of this install using oem components for about 17.5 but it was worth the extra money to stay with the ab standard that our guys are already trained on and like working with.