When did PLC Programming and Troubleshooting Machines become only for Electricians

We have a segmented maintenance staff at a plant and I was wondering when did electricians and /or technicians get the
sole responsibility to understand simple plc code and troubleshoot machinery . Since we are in the computer age,
everybody should be familier enough with a PC to understand and make the effort to understand todays industrial controls.
Most of these things have nothing to do with electricity,to a
certain point.
I coach athletics and I challenge my athletes to be the best
they can be , and test their limits.It bothers me that we allow people to be mediocre. Am I being to tough ? I struggle
in my career , but I still challenge myself , to get better.
What are your thoughts.

I personally wouldn't want someone who is unqualified or inexperienced messing with code. Simple fault resetting is fine, and that is about it.

Really, a lot of guys around here are older and don't even mess with a PC all that much. Even so, I don't find ladder logic as simple as clicking buttons on the web or typing a paragraph. I find a lot of software made by industrial folk a generation behind with windows. It's not as streamlined or intuitive. This maybe because it is more technical than other windows based software.

I'm not sure what PLC you are using, but every part of ours in our plant is using electricity. Whether it is a pressure switch or temp controller. It is using the electricity and one would have to know if the switch (or etc.) is even good or bad.

Ask yourself this, would you rather just track down the problem, or would you like to track down what somebody "who didn't change (or touch)" did and also find/fix the problem.

PLC should be offlimits for unqualified, that excludes also lot of electricians. It is entirely different thing to connect a wire than to do logic. Machines should have diagnostic so good, that actual code would have no need to be looked at. Ofc that is often not the case.

Since most other trades got down on there knees in front of the broken down machine and prayed
"please god let it be an electrical fault"

Rob S,

From my standpoint, unless you are in maintenance or a technician, familiar with plc's and the machine, you do not need to be in the electrical cabinet or on a pc connected to a plc.

From personal experience, unqualified people jump the gun and make a quick decision based on what they can see, not thinking about the entire machine.

Broken arms, 3rd degree burns, loss of limbs (my friend lost his leg), and even death can result from this. I was lucky enough to get out of the way when someone put a plc into run mode. they didn't have a clue what was being done at the time. I was the electrician debugging the machine when when
it took off and was fortunate enough to get my hands out of the machine before they were hit above the elbows. we had about $5,000 in damage to the machine.

Many plants have set up standards and qualifications in order to work inside control panels and plc's. If you are NOT qualified, you can be wrote up, sent home for a week, or fired on the spot.

regards,
james

Rob S. said:

We have a segmented maintenance staff at a plant and I was wondering when did electricians and /or technicians get the
sole responsibility to understand simple plc code and troubleshoot machinery

Click to expand...

I might be off base, but when I read this I'm presuming that Rob S is doing a little venting. Perhaps on something that he believes almost anybody at his site should be able to solve. The problem might be that he has a reputation for solving any problem that might arise.

I believe this is just something that comes with the territory when you do a good job with PLCs. Many times when the question is asked on this forum about how to become a PLC programmer, one of the replies will indicate that you need to know how all of the aspects of a particular machine works. This by definition makes the PLC fluent type of person one of the best troubleshooter types on site.

James Mcquade said:

From personal experience, unqualified people jump the gun and make a quick decision based on what they can see, not thinking about the entire machine.

I was lucky enough to get out of the way when someone put a plc into run mode. they didn't have a clue what was being done at the time. I was the electrician debugging the machine when when
it took off and was fortunate enough to get my hands out of the machine before they were hit above the elbows. we had about $5,000 in damage to the machine.

Click to expand...

This should be used as a positive learning experience. The only person looking out for your safety is yourself. Trust no one but yourself with this all too important task. Knowing that there are unqualified idiots in the area should heighten our concern for safety and diminish our trust in common sense. The amount of time and effort we put into safety dictates whether we get an RV or nursing home room for retirement.

From experience, when doing a PLC program ...comment everything. If you get the program 100% right and you only go back to it in 10 years time, at least you, as well as other people, will know what you did and what the thinking was at the time.

As for machine automation, display all electrical faults or interlock conditions, so that the shift guys can locate and rectify the problem timeously. This is usually time consuming to program, and does not make the machine perform any better, but does reduce downtime.

In depth fault finding & analysis should always be left to people who are knowledgeable and competent.

Todster,

I know the loto rules, but its hard to electrically debug equipment when its turned off. I continually run into this problem all the time.
I prove my point by turning off the power, turn off the air, and locking out the machine, then say to everyone, i have done your lock out / tag out procedure, now how exactly do you want me to fix the machine?

A lot of times in my work, it is impossible to do the loto without destroying the evidence in the plc as well. The machine i referred to was when i was working at an OEM facility and the boss wanted to impress someone by showing how smart he was. And yes, i now have added safety measures to prevent this from happening again.

As you said, experience is the best teacher.

regards,
james

I'm sorry , I was venting. I just wish people had a desire to learn, and also enjoy their work.

Have a great day

I have just finished project managing a system (kicking 'A's' to get things done) and the software was written by a contractor. He was having problems trying to understand me (normal) with respect to isolated signal transmitters, digital stuff in the field, programming protection relays - you get the idea - could go on for half an hour. I asked what were his qualifications. He answered he was a 'programmer'. Had absolutely no idea about anything in the field - electrical or mechanical. Spent more time fixing his code than anything else. Told him I would recommend to the client they never employ him again. It was like extracting teeth.
Bit like the engineer that asks 'what are you qualifications?' Answer ia always 'a silly old electrical fitter who has learned by falling on his 'A' and making stupid mistakes all his life'. The engineer never has much of a sensible answer to that - most common answer is 'I am an engineer' - WHOOOPPPEEEE!

If you've got technicians that actually look into the PLC code to troubleshoot, you should count yourself lucky.

Convo with our technical specialist (ya know, the one technician that stands out among the rest) yesterday:

Him: The pressure reading is off, it's giving me 2200mBar on the OP270. Shouldn't the max be 1000mBar?
Me: Whats the actual measurement on the signal? (meaning 4-20mA, what's the actual value)
Him: Well it's about 22mBar on the regulating valve.
Me: Whats the actual measurement in mA's?
Him: Well it's about 22mBar on the regulating valve.
Me: Whats the actual measurement when you measure it with your Fluke Multimeter?
Him: My Fluke can measure mBar?
....
At this point his phone conveniently shut down due to battery failure.

Another incident was:
Machine stops, gives error, something about motor + temp.
So first step is? Replace the motor ofc.
Oh, same message. Kinda figured, the motor wasn't warm at all.
Second step? Replace the cables from drive to motor.
Oh, didn't work.
Third step? Replace the drive.
Oh, don't have the same drive.
Doesn't matter, replace it, we'll change some settings and it'll work.
...
Nine hours later:
Everything put back to normal.
Was bad contact on a temp sensor.

We can't even get our technicians to troubleshoot a machine, hell will freeze over before we get our operators to do the initial troubleshooting.