Integrators Liability!!!

I have been in the field now for about 8 years. Five of those as an independent System Integrator. What worries me is the liability, which potentially follows this kind of work.
I have no facts on under what circumstances an injured operator might come after my company, and me after being injured while working on machinery, which I automated.

Any comments based on historical experience would be preferred,

Could you recommend a particular insurance policy type for this kind of work?

Thanks,
P.S. I went LLC a year ago but still would like to protect my company and me.

Insurance

I recently set up a new company, we did a lot of checking around. Most industrial companies require that they have your insurance papers before you even step into the plant. They are basically 2 types of insurance you can get. The one that we bought is a 2 million policy that covers us in case we cause a fire or someone gets hurt on one of our machines. It was around $500 a year. We got it through State Farm and got a discount because of already having car and home insurance.
The second type will cost around $1500 and will protect you from one of those cascading lawsuits. What I mean by that is where your machine is sold in 10 years from now and later on someone gets hurt and sues everybody and his mother.
I was subcontracting to a company that made shearing presses, they said that they are still being sued for machines they built 20 years or more that had been modified and resold countless times. The moment someone gets hurt they still get sued. The second type of insurance is for this reason.
[email protected]

Here in England if you design systems ( I do) you have to have an extra insurance policy called 'product liability'
Its much the same as mark said except for one main difference.

they said that they are still being sued for machines they built 20 years or more that had been modified and resold countless times.

Click to expand...

If anyone alters your program or modify's the machine, your liability is immediately rescinded and the person that did the alterations is now liable.

This works both ways with the systems I design and the systems I alter. But I am insured in both cases.

Here in Ozz I have public liability and product liability for 10 million. I cannot get insurance for less than that. I might add that as I design, build and program systems, my insurance costs are far greater than if I only worked as a sparky. The reason the insurance companies give is that I offer advice. This year cost me $5500.00 for that insurance and theft etc of tools. How come it is so cheap over there?
Add to that workcover (workers compensation) and the insurance bill for a one man band was over $7500.00.
beerchug

Insurace

That's a lot of money Bob. Seems like you would have to charge a "good" rate just to cover your insurance. What is normal rate down there for what you do anyway?
Do you bill different rates depending on if you are; Designing, Programming, wiring etc.

Here in Idaho I pay $150 per year in workers comp. insurance for my self. (same work scope as you have) The classification is; Computer Device Installer. I carry no other liability,,,,,yet.

P.S. Maby your high rates have something to do with the Dingos

Later,

Between $40 and $80 per hour Orn. Depends what I am doing and what I can get.
Yes, insurance is very expensive here. Workcover is broke and they are fining anyone for anything on building sites. Minimum fine for any slight indiscretion is $550.
The reason they give us for high insurance rates is September 11 and the cost of re-insurance. Seems to me like a lot of B******T after seeing what you guys are paying.
I might add that my broker approached 14 insurers for me, 12 declined to quote.
beerchug

I think the insurers are taking it out of different places. I have rental property. The annual cost has risen from $450 t6o $900 in the last 4 years. Others companies are quoting similar rates.

State dependant in the US

Your doing great there Orn with Workers Compensation Insurance. Here in California, it has absolutly got out of hand.

One of my bigger customers (a very big wheel manufacturer) had their Workers Comp. go from $300,000 dollars last year to over $1,000,000 this year at their California plant. Some of my other customers have gone as much as 5 times higher for their Workers Comp. in just 1 year.

It hasn't affected me too much as I have a smaller company (its only doubled - great for me huh!). That being said, a lot of the price increases for all of the insurances have a lot to do with the state that you live in, at least here in the US.

Regards,
Chris

I jealous you guys in US you charging much more then us and paying funy price for insurance.

We charge very similar to Bob in USD per hour but for insurance we pay for what we call here "Professional liability" it mean my liability
if I cause damege to the machine I work on,or damege which became from my work.
And for cover of 200,000 USD I pay 2000 USD.For cover to people or other property on site. I pay 1000 USD for same cover.
It is very expensive to sue here so that the average cover.
What I more interested is what I should do when I step into plant for job and ask to do something which I think is wrong.I talking about
to add E-Stop to machine who controled by PLC and the existing
E-stops connected to one of the inputs.I said that I dont want to do it in this way this machine is dangerous and I dont want to consider about that option.The people in the plant agree with me and asked for quote for hardware option. This story happend in the US in my last trip.
What you thing I should do?
I dont think it worth to came from Israel to do it(7500 miles). I will know at soon when they will get another quotes.
In Israel if you see somthing dont safe or made not professionally, where you work you must report on that. otherwise you became part of this negligence.

Sorry
It was me I forgot to log in.

Gee! From the prices I have read in these posts I doubt very much that you guys are insured at all!

To have a paper that says you are insured is one thing. To keep the flesh eaters away is something else, specially in the States.

How many of you can write a letter to your insurance company that goes like this:

I program industrial machines for clients in the USA. Am I covered?
See the prices skyrocket upward.

The two magical terms are "program" and USA.

I cannot imagine a price for this under 10K.