Printing press with a PLC

blima

Member
B
Join Date
Aug 2010
Location
Lisbon
Posts
96
Hi!

I have an old printing press where I would like to monitor the circuit breakers if there are tripped or not!

I have 7 different locations on the machine and with approximately 35 circuit breakers on each one, having a medium distance of 10m of each other.

The problem is that the printers can start the press and do not know if one CB is tripped or not, but in the mean time we have costs with paper, ink, etc.

So, I’m thinking in using the following solution:

- Siemens S7-1200 with HMI console to display the error message. One Input for each location

- Remote board to connect one phase L1 of the output of each CB, witch energises a individual relay. Making the interface between 240Vac and the 24Vdc from the PLC. If one CB is tripped the relay will not latch, then the remote board will not send the 24Vdc to the input of the PLC

Is there a more simple way to do this? Do you know another way to make the interface between the 240Vac from the CB to the 24Vdc of the PLC? Another brand of PLC can do it better?

Thanks in advance,
Bruno
 
Unless you absolutely have to have a PLC/HMI system, it might be a little overkill. I would consider an audio alarm to monitor the breakers. Put a relay on the load side of each breaker such that the relay drops out if the breaker trips. Then use a 24VDC supply with a 24VDC alarm or buzzer and wire all the relay N.C contacts in parallel. If a breaker trips, the indicator light on the relay will go out and the alarm demand attention.
 
Norml said:
Unless you absolutely have to have a PLC/HMI system, it might be a little overkill. I would consider an audio alarm to monitor the breakers. Put a relay on the load side of each breaker such that the relay drops out if the breaker trips. Then use a 24VDC supply with a 24VDC alarm or buzzer and wire all the relay N.C contacts in parallel. If a breaker trips, the indicator light on the relay will go out and the alarm demand attention.
Click to expand...

The problem with that is it doesn't indicate which breaker has tripped, just that "a" breaker has tripped. 35 breakers, apparently each one is roughly 10m apart (that's... a long total distance). I would want to know exactly which breaker tripped before I go hiking to discover which one.
 
Remote board to connect one phase L1 of the output of each CB, witch energises a individual relay. Making the interface between 240Vac and the 24Vdc from the PLC
Click to expand...
just add an auxillary contact to each circuit breaker - more reliable than a relay in the long run.
 
I agree with Tharon that knowing exactly which Breaker has tripped would be nice, but in this case, probably knowing which Cabinet it is in would be adequate.

I also agree with STL that a bunch of Relays is unnecessary. I don't do much with Siemens, but I am sure they have in Cabinet Distributed I/O of some kind. You can either use auxiliaries off the Breakers or come directly off the load side of the Breaker to 120VAC Inputs. Then display the Cabinet and Breaker tripped on the HMI.

Stu.....
 
Thanks for the all the inputs.

My intention was to buy the S7-1200 starter kit, to maintain a minimum cost of the project, since it's price in Portugal is around 500Euros.

If I considerer a input of the PLC for each CB, I will have a bunch of modules of IO and the cost of the project will be exponential.

Perhaps I will keep it simple and use the solution that Norml told us.

For future project with less inputs that I might come across, each remote IO modules do you suggest to use with S7-1200? Can anyone share a project to see how I configure communication between modules and PLC?

Thanks,
Bruno
 
I would use a phase tester to check if all phases are present, when you test only one phase and the circuit is live this line will have volts on it.

and with some small relays switch over. costing 10 euro each.
 
For safety I would either use Relays or Auxiliaries, having voltages from mixed sources coming on to one plc sounds like trouble. A fault in the PLC could lead to stray voltages and dead people.

For the PLC I would look at the Moeller Easy range. You can network 8 together using standard ethernet cable and one unit can read inputs and outputs from other units, it is as easy as - I2 would be a local second input, 4I2 would be the second input on unit 4. You can add the MFD from the range to display messages and show alarms.
http://www.moeller.net/en/products_solutions/motor_applications/control/easy/index.jsp

Bryan
 
Another non-automated idea - how about the relay's wired up as before and a beacon light on each cabinet - each relay in a cabinet has another set of NC contacts that light a beacon when the relay trips off.

I agree that using PLC/HMI for this is almost overkill...almost.

Having said that, if there are other improvements that you might want in the future (remote start, monitor other parameters...) a PLC will definitely help you out - a brick-like S7 might not be your first choice for expansion though...

-John
 
Hi,

I have found this relays on the web! I am thinking in using them in the interface between the PLC and the separates cabinets.

Regards,
Bruno
 
burnerman said:
Your sarcasm, may be lost on this Portuguese poster!
Click to expand...

Not here :)

But I do think the 1200 is a good idea, I would have one HMI and 3 PLC (one at each location) put the HMI and the feeder so the pressman can see it before he starts and I would install aux's on each CB, the aux would not cost that much.

Most people do not know that the Siemens 1200's cost are very cheap and they have built in Ethernet ports, so you could buy one kit with the HMI and two other CPU... run some cat 5 and your done
 

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