Flickering photocells

Decamber

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Join Date
Sep 2008
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14
Hello,
I am working on a conveyor application that transports pallets of steel sheet rolls. In this application there are a number of conveyor stations following each other. Each has a through-beam photocell for pallet detection. Blocking a photocell starts the conveyors on that station and the next, unless the next station is occupied. A negative flank on a photocell means that the station is unoccupied.

The problem is that between the wooden pallet and the steel sheet roll, is a transparent plastic protection sheet that extends outside the pallet. When the package approaches a photocell, the plastic sometimes blocks the photocell and sometimes not, and sometimes something in between which leads to a flickering signal. When the signal goes high and then low, the station is considered unuccupied. To prevent something bad to happen, I have implemented on delay timers on each photocell signal in the PLC.

Now to the question:
Is this the best way to prevent flickering signals? Are there any disadvantages in doing this? Say I got a hundred photocells... I'm thinking mainly of timing errors and such in the PLC.
 
De-bounce timers are a decent way of going about handling sensor flickering. You could see if there is a way to reposition the sensors so that they pickup something more reliable like the pallet.

You could also look into changing the type of sensor used, perhaps this isn't an application for a photocell but more suited to a capacitive/inductive proxy?

Sometimes it really is just about having the right sensor for the right job, a lot of times you'll find people using the generic flavour of sensor just so they only need to stock a single kind of spare. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.
 
Thank you, Christoff84 and PeterW, for the replies.

Repositioning the photoeyes could work and I will definitely take a look into it.

Regarding "de-bounce timers" (this terminology gave me a good hunt on Google, thanks), you say that it's a decent way of handling the problem. I spoke to an engineer a while back and he said the opposite and referred to timing errors in the PLC. I didn't grasp why it would be a problem since timers, at least in this CPU (a Mitsubishi Q1AS), are hardware based and thus should not be prone to cycle time faults. I'd love to hear your opinion here.
 
Can a conveyor station contain one pallet only?

If so I would have made objects of the stations that have atleast these states:

Free
Ready to transport in
Transporting in
Occupied
Transporting out

Then the transition between these states is easy
from free to ready to transport in = Sensor off
from ready to transport in to transporting in = Station before is Transporting out
from Transporting in to occupied = Sensor on
from occupied to transporting out = Next station Ready to transport in
from transporting out to free = Next station Occupied

This logic can be contained in a FB and then you can use it to all your conveyors..

To get a steady sensor signal take the signal and filter it on and off with a TON and a TOF timer in series..

This is just an example so there might be errors..
 
Hello,
I am working on a conveyor application that transports pallets of steel sheet rolls. In this application there are a number of conveyor stations following each other. Each has a through-beam photocell for pallet detection. Blocking a photocell starts the conveyors on that station and the next, unless the next station is occupied. A negative flank on a photocell means that the station is unoccupied.

The problem is that between the wooden pallet and the steel sheet roll, is a transparent plastic protection sheet that extends outside the pallet. When the package approaches a photocell, the plastic sometimes blocks the photocell and sometimes not, and sometimes something in between which leads to a flickering signal. When the signal goes high and then low, the station is considered unuccupied. To prevent something bad to happen, I have implemented on delay timers on each photocell signal in the PLC.

Now to the question:
Is this the best way to prevent flickering signals? Are there any disadvantages in doing this? Say I got a hundred photocells... I'm thinking mainly of timing errors and such in the PLC.
If all the rolls are of a similar type and sit in the same position on each pallet can you raise the sensor to look at product or do you need to detect empty pallets?
 
...Regarding "de-bounce timers" (this terminology gave me a good hunt on Google, thanks), you say that it's a decent way of handling the problem. I spoke to an engineer a while back and he said the opposite and referred to timing errors in the PLC. ...


I think the engineer does have a point, if you're timing the sensor over a long period of time it oculd do strange things. If your sensor is only flickering for a few scans, it wouldn't be that much of a problem, your timer would just be long enough to cover that small flicker. (<100ms or so)

If you have need of timers > 1 second I would be looking at different placement/sensors for the job.
 
we have exactly the same set up here where i work, different product though, and had exactly the same problem.
I did look into debounce photocells, we have 42 conveyotrs, cost wasnt really an issue, but did play a roll, availability of 42 at one time was the problem, so i went PeterW's route, angle them approx 15 - 20 degrees. Problem solved, no program changes, nothing, just a bit of work for the mechanical department to angle the brackets :)
 
Last edited:
When all else fails, you could design a timing pulse that you could "and" with the sensor so that you would only see an output when it was valid to have one.
 

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