PLC5-40E PID Loop

Join Date
Sep 2010
Location
Sheridan, AR
Posts
3
I have programmed PLC5's for several years and have attended advanced programming classes, but I still have issues with PID loops, in particular manual/auto and auto/manual bounceless transfer. The help files and manuals don't adquately cover PID loops.

Does anyone have instructions or sample rungs explaining how to make it happen?
 
first - welcome to the forum ...

one size doesn't fit all - so if you want detailed answers, we'll need detailed information ...

are you using an Integer (N-type) control block - or a PD-type control block? ...

are you using the Tieback feature for your "manual" operation - or using the Set Output Mode feature? ... or both? ...

strongly recommended: post your entire RSP file ... note that you'll have to ZIP it first - then attach it right here to this thread ...

the file will help us see how you've scaled your I/O - and other minor details that are important to get it all nailed down ...
 
Greetings jamesau ...

I'm an old dog – but I'm always interested in learning a new trick ...

personally I've never seen anyone transfer the Tieback signal around with MOV instructions the way you've shown ...

a quick question for you: does this arrangement function reliably in an actual working system – or is this a "textbook" type setup? ...

my biggest question is where are you getting the actual Tieback value from? ...

in most cases we use something like an operator's manual station to feed the signal into the Tieback location (specifically, into the Tieback address as entered right on the front of the PID) ...

and I've never seen the Tieback being constantly moved into the "final destination" of the control loop ... (I'm assuming that's the function of your address N9:196 – which seems to be an I/P transducer if I'm reading the documentation correctly) ...

and then on another topic ...

I'm also very interested in what happens to the field output device if either the EQU or the LIM instruction on your PID rung ever got evaluated as a FALSE condition ...

for example: suppose that the PID happened to be running along in the Auto mode, and suddenly one of those rung conditions happened to go FALSE ... in that case, the PID would cease to function - and so the CV (N7:26 in your example) would simply "freeze" at its current value ...

going further: it looks like the "frozen" CV would then be moved into the Tieback – and that same "frozen" value would then be moved from the Tieback right on out to the field output device ...

I'm betting that you must have some additional logic (on other rungs that you're not showing) to take care of that particular situation ... are you simply moving another value from some other control scheme out to the field device? ...

if it's not too much trouble, please post again and show us how you're taking care of controlling the process in case of a "FALSE" condition on the PID rung ... like I said earlier, I've never seen it done the way you've shown it – and I'm interested in seeing how you've worked these little details out ...

 
Hi Ron,

Responses in boldface below...
a quick question for you: does this arrangement function reliably in an actual working system – or is this a "textbook" type setup? ... This is from a working system.

my biggest question is where are you getting the actual Tieback value from? ... Tieback is the manual output from a PID faceplate at the HMI. When in manual mode, the operator has control over the output; when in auto, it is overwritten (bumpless transfer)


and I've never seen the Tieback being constantly moved into the "final destination" of the control loop ... (I'm assuming that's the function of your address N9:196 – which seems to be an I/P transducer if I'm reading the documentation correctly) ... Yes, N9:196 is the address of the point on the AO card

and then on another topic ...

I'm also very interested in what happens to the field output device if either the EQU or the LIM instruction on your PID rung ever got evaluated as a FALSE condition ... The EQU was used to load share multiple PIDs processing on the processor at 1 sec intervals... probably not of any consequence but thought it a good idea at the time, I guess. The LIM is much more significant and is intended to keep the last PID output on a bad signal while in automatic(this I/O has no open-circuit-detect, as I remember). I do this for regulatory PID control. You'd want to be careful using this if one end of your transmitter range corresponds closely to a normal operating point.


I'm betting that you must have some additional logic (on other rungs that you're not showing) to take care of that particular situation ... are you simply moving another value from some other control scheme out to the field device? ... No, an alarm will sound. In this example, the operator has the responsibility for controlling the mode of the PID loop.
 

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