Slightly OT:Photo Evidence with Barcode in Database

Ideas and suggestions as its something i have never done before

Box gets packed and delivered to a dispatch area from a robot in a warehouse

Customer wants to take a snap shot of the products in the box before the lid is put on and scan the barcode and then store this data for future reference

I have spoke with cognex who can do this but may be quite expensive - thanks KRK

Anyone else done this or know of a decent solution ?

This is all the info i have from the customer but will know more next week

The questions i have for the customer so far are

• The size of the box (area to be image captured)?
• The type of bar code?
• If the image/bar code is to be captured on the fly?
• If so at what speed?
• What type of barcode?
• What detail of the image is required?
• Colour image?
• What depth is the box?
• Is the product in the box at one level or multiple levels?
• Where and how would the data be stored ? (Server archiving the data?)
• What frequency the boxes need capturing/recording?

The reason for this is they are finding more and more customers are ringing up saying X,Y,Z was missing from the box so the barcode tied to the photo will help them decide if the robots missed some items or the customer is pulling a fast one.

504bloke said:

The questions i have for the customer so far are

• What depth is the box?
• Is the product in the box at one level or multiple levels?

Click to expand...

Those were my first thoguhts, too. How is a photograph going to prove all the contents are there? X-Ray?

Maybe they need to weigh the cases after they're sealed and compare that with expected values? This might be impractical depending on the weight of the "missing" items.

It reminds me of working in a tire plant where we had to photograph our shipping containers to prove we were completely filling them. Our overseas customer doubted that they settled that much in shipment and thought we were wasting shipping space, so we started taking snapshots of every load as evidence.

A large copier company in Rochester NY used to do this and maybe still does. After every component was put in the box a picture was taken. All that data was stored under the product serial number so when a customer complained they sent pictures of the box being filled and closed.
They had a homemade system using Radio shaft parts but it worked very well.
Remember that photography is all about recording light so plan to spend money and time getting the lighting right. You will want clear shots with no glare.

Bump: Any other ideas for me

I would want to know the expected throughput of the system. 1 case per minute vs. 1 case per second is a huge difference in this process.

I've seen a system that did exactly this built with bespoke software by Dorner/Autologik of Hartland, WI in the USA. I was working on the conveyor control portion and the part that stored photographs into the mainframe order management system was pure black magic to us. The customer was very happy with Autologik's results; their retailer's claims for "shrinkage" dropped dramatically once they could prove how many units were packed in each case (we weighed them too, before loose packing material was added).

I don't think you'll find an off-the-shelf solution from a camera maker because there's so much variation in the conveyor and barcode system and especially the databases that store this stuff; we were interfacing with an AS/400.

You're right to be circumspect about this; it's probably a custom software approach that deserves plenty of planning and budget.

Thanks guys

I'm seeing the job tomorrow so will let you know more info then if i have it

504bloke said:

Ideas and suggestions as its something i have never done before

Box gets packed and delivered to a dispatch area from a robot in a warehouse

-


The reason for this is they are finding more and more customers are ringing up saying X,Y,Z was missing from the box so the barcode tied to the photo will help them decide if the robots missed some items or the customer is pulling a fast one.

Click to expand...

Hm. So they don't know now if the "robot missed some items?" It might also pay to look at the robot and transport logic.

- How is the packing list validated before going to the robot?
- Does the robot read back the list to the sending device for verification before packing?
- Does the robot verify each item on the list as it is picked, as it is packed?
- What happens if the bin is empty when the robot attempts to pick from it?
- Are the parts or items tracked from their receipt, into the bins, onto the robot... i.e., at the end of the day if the robot should have emptied a bin, is the bin in fact empty?

Validating the final box is a great idea, too, but if they think the customers complaints are valid, then what happened between their receipt of an order and the open, packed box sitting at the end of the conveyor or on the transporter or whatever??

It'll be interesting to hear what you find out when you do the plant visit. And, if weight is measureable for the items, then that would probably be the fastest, cheapest way to check the packed boxes.

Again thanks for the replies

Yes weight could be an option and ill know more tomorrow

They dont think its the robot, they had an employee sit there for a week and robot boy didnt miss an item

The conveyor has an S7-300 on it at present so we could probably add weigh cells and a weigh module to the S7

504bloke said:

Again thanks for the replies

Yes weight could be an option and ill know more tomorrow

They dont think its the robot, they had an employee sit there for a week and robot boy didnt miss an item

The conveyor has an S7-300 on it at present so we could probably add weigh cells and a weigh module to the S7

Click to expand...

So what did you find out when you went and saw the system??

Sorry, been a bit busy to post

Ill post properly tomorrow from work

But basically there are more than one robot and some human pickers, the goods are in a plastic crate around 400 long x 280 wide x 250mm deep

They are travelling pretty quick (conveyor speed is to be forwarded to me ) and they shift 1000units per hour on the conveyor

There is only one place to take a photo and this is just before it enters the lid area, the photo has to be taken on the fly and then when the box enters a machine area stops for around 0.5 seconds and a lid is fixed on, at this point the bar code can be scanned (5/2 interleaved). Bar code on each side of the box and the front of the box also.

The camera will have to focus over the box depth range as the height of goods varies.

The customer has nothing pc/plc/database wise at present and is open to suggestions as this is a new system

Photos need to be good quality and colour

The existing cartons are weighed on the fly on the conveyor at various places but this in reality doesnt mean alot as the goods may change packaging and shape depending on supplier so weights are never the same.....


Thats all from memory, good job i havent had any wine yet !

LOL That's pretty good from memory, thanks!

No rush on the next post from me, I'm on vacation starting tomorrow (holiday to you I think!) until the end of the month. From your end, it's probably already tomorrow! I shall endeavor to drink a lot and think of little. According to some, I'm good at half of that, anyway...

Looking forward to following this when I get back!

Paul T said:

LOL That's pretty good from memory, thanks!

No rush on the next post from me, I'm on vacation starting tomorrow (holiday to you I think!) until the end of the month. From your end, it's probably already tomorrow! I shall endeavor to drink a lot and think of little. According to some, I'm good at half of that, anyway...

Looking forward to following this when I get back!

Click to expand...

Its 3.30 pm out there isnt it ? Get thinking you have at least an hour before vacation to give me some ideas !!