OK.. wheres the money at?

Its starting to dawn on me in aint about the hardware anymore.

Is PLC programming a last bastion of sorts for programmers? I say that because there are a lot of outsourced programmers. My first impression of ladder logic and PLCs was "Wow GUI based programming couldnt be much simpler" and given the PLCs rather simple scanning I wouldnt have guessed there was such a demand.

So wheres the big bucks?

Near as I can tell its "process engineering"

Are process engineers driving beemers while outsourced computer science majors who know FORTRAN and such are eating top ramen in their moms basement?lol.

Seriously, from my job search the maint techs pay and bennies arent too bad, but I cant help but notice that the process engineering style jobs are in demand even in the USA where factories are supposedly in demise.

Abroad, given emerging markets and all, they will fly you in and set you up in style it seems for some jobs. I suppose they cant find an Indian guy to do it for 18K a year. But for how long?

Well Im on the outside looking in, but how do you guys see the job market and trends unfolding. I was somewhat alarmed that PLCs can go online, I was concerned that this could lead to eventual outsourcing to another tech support guy in India, Are Process engineers jobs safe in 10 years?

Are process engineers driving beemers while outsourced computer science majors who know FORTRAN and such are eating top ramen in their moms basement?lol.

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They make the PLC's.

Programming a PLC isn't particularly about the computer science behind it. It's about understanding the mechanical system it's controlling, and designing the program to optimise said system.

I think the demand comes from the duality in the nature of the job and the absence of formal training in the field.

carwashblues said:

I was concerned that this could lead to eventual outsourcing to another tech support guy in India...

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I would NEVER have that happen. Too many things I can do onsite that anyone offsite might hose up or endanger someone's life over.

If you're looking to retire a wealthy man, maybe PLCs aren't the train to take, but I make a great paycheck--my wife doesn't have to work and takes care of raising our daughters at home. I opened Angus Automation earlier this year and while we aren't retiring soon, I hope to be able to afford to within the next ten years.

Where's the bucks? Answer that question and teach me and we'll retire with clean hands.

Word Rube

carwashblues said:

Its starting to dawn on me in aint about the hardware anymore.

Is PLC programming a last bastion of sorts for programmers? I say that because there are a lot of outsourced programmers. My first impression of ladder logic and PLCs was "Wow GUI based programming couldnt be much simpler" and given the PLCs rather simple scanning I wouldnt have guessed there was such a demand.

So wheres the big bucks?

Near as I can tell its "process engineering"

Are process engineers driving beemers while outsourced computer science majors who know FORTRAN and such are eating top ramen in their moms basement?lol.

Seriously, from my job search the maint techs pay and bennies arent too bad, but I cant help but notice that the process engineering style jobs are in demand even in the USA where factories are supposedly in demise.

Abroad, given emerging markets and all, they will fly you in and set you up in style it seems for some jobs. I suppose they cant find an Indian guy to do it for 18K a year. But for how long?

Well Im on the outside looking in, but how do you guys see the job market and trends unfolding. I was somewhat alarmed that PLCs can go online, I was concerned that this could lead to eventual outsourcing to another tech support guy in India, Are Process engineers jobs safe in 10 years?

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what are we calling big bucks?

I'm in Fort Worth and last year made 60K+. We seem to have it slightly better down here for PLC types than up north but I'm sure there's the odd exceptions to that statement.

I'm not sure where that rates on CWBs big buck scale

in louisiana most programming types will bring in anywhere from 70-120k. we have it pretty easy also, most of the programming stuff is pretty simple in the oil and gas industry.

Thanks guys, I suppose big bucks is relative, I sure know what dosent pay in this new economy, thats the trend to a service economy with its menial 9 dollar an hour wages and no benefits.

Making a hundred plus K a year is big bucks to me anyway.

I get the dual nature concept, in terms of being familiar with the mechanical aspects.

Hey Diat, since were from the same state where refineries and petrochemical plants dominate, could you answer a quick question?

"Instrument technicians" now what do they do? do they ever touch a PLC or a limit switch or whatever and only deal with the flowmeters and instruments of that nature? Is it a seperate job? Do they get to sit around until some instrument acts up? Do they really fix any instruments or just toss out the old one and install and setup a new one?

I see that kind of job sorta thrown into the mix in various job postings so I was wondering. They also mention "data-aquisition" gear in various oil service jobs, is this considered "instrument" type work?

carwashblues said:

Hey Diat, since were from the same state where refineries and petrochemical plants dominate, could you answer a quick question?

"Instrument technicians" now what do they do? do they ever touch a PLC or a limit switch or whatever and only deal with the flowmeters and instruments of that nature? Is it a seperate job? Do they get to sit around until some instrument acts up? Do they really fix any instruments or just toss out the old one and install and setup a new one?

I see that kind of job sorta thrown into the mix in various job postings so I was wondering. They also mention "data-aquisition" gear in various oil service jobs, is this considered "instrument" type work?

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I would consider an instrument tech someone that troubleshoots,calibrates and/or replaces transmitters/level switches, stuff like that. someone like that would probably have limited plc experience, but possibly training to be a senior tech that could make some logic changes if needed.

diat150 said:

I would consider an instrument tech someone that troubleshoots,calibrates and/or replaces transmitters/level switches, stuff like that. someone like that would probably have limited plc experience, but possibly training to be a senior tech that could make some logic changes if needed.

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I was an instrument tech for a natural gas utility ( transmission and storage). When PLC's came along they were given to the instrument tech to install , program and maintain. So I guess it depends on the company you work for. I will always consider my self an instrument tech first.

diat150 said:

in louisiana most programming types will bring in anywhere from 70-120k. we have it pretty easy also, most of the programming stuff is pretty simple in the oil and gas industry.

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Dang--maybe I should move over one state to the right!

Mickey, When they went with the PLCs were you already familiar with them or just picked up the knowledge via ojt?

Also Im just speculating, but would the PLCs in an application like that lead a fairly trouble free life vs in a factory with all the conveyor belts and machinery. Once the PLCs were in place did you have to mess with them?

One more thing, are the instruments repaired in house, sent off to be repaired, or tossed in the dumpster?

Im hoping they cost more than PLCs so that maybe theres work repairing them.

Are instrument techs expected to be able to resolve any issue in the plant so you would also have to know PLCs and pumps and motors and all that?

Mickey, When they went with the PLCs were you already familiar with them or just picked up the knowledge via ojt?

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In my case OJT, here is the equipment and manuals now install it and make it work. I have had some training after the fact though.

Also Im just speculating, but would the PLCs in an application like that lead a fairly trouble free life vs in a factory with all the conveyor belts and machinery. Once the PLCs were in place did you have to mess with them?

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Very, very reliable. Most are still there some 20 years later. One of the major benefits of PLC's over the original relay based systems is they are very easy to change. So you are always finding better ways to do things and adding to them.

One more thing, are the instruments repaired in house, sent off to be repaired, or tossed in the dumpster?

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Used too but that stopped many years ago. As others have said the more expensive stuff is sent back for repair or replace. Most are just tossed and replaced, but as is the case with PLC's process control instrumentation is very reliable.

Are instrument techs expected to be able to resolve any issue in the plant so you would also have to know PLCs and pumps and motors and all that?

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With company I worked for techs took care of anything that had wires connected to it. We did not change motors but took care of motor control centers ( MCC).
Machinics took care of pumps. Techs took care of things that controlled the pumps. Techs took care of all things pneumatic, hydraulic and electrical.

Interesting topic.
Understanding machinery, processes, operations, being able to design a control system and then program and implement it is where the dollars are. That is what I do for a living.
I have a lot of years (67 tomorrow) of control system design, building control systems, writing software to make it work and then commissioning behind me. The great thing is I am still learning every day. Mind is still 20 but the body objects violently to that supposition.
I deal with all sorts of communications to and from PLCs, design and implement SCADA systems, write spec outlines for consultants, you name it.
I am an electrical fitter by trade and have no other pieces of paper to do with engineering at all but a wealth of know how and experience.
The only what I call 'useless' pieces of paper I have (university degrees) have to do with business, sales and marketing management.
I earn good bucks because of my experience, capabilities, honesty, doing the job right the first time (I hate call backs for something I may have missed) and pride in what I am able to achieve.
The big dough in the next few years will be for controls guys that do what I do. They are not being trained anymore and all us 'old fellas' are retiring, slowing down, kicking the bucket and there is no one left.
Wish I was 20 years younger - would make lots more bucks in a few years time when there are virtually no controls people left.