Clean-In-Place Process

Adam303 · Mar 1, 2011

We are debating on a Clean-In-Place process and I wanted to know you’re input on this.
1st step is INITIAL FLUSHING
2nd step is CIRCULATION OF ALKALI
3rd step is INTERMEDIATE RINSE
4th step is CIRCULATING WITH ACID
5th step is FINAL RISE

Of course all the five steps have some other factors as temperature, flow rate, exposure time, we have all of those factors covered. We are debating over the five steps, in your opinion should the process:
1) Run automatically thru all the five steps
2) Stop in between each step, and have the operator start the next step
3) Should AUTO MANUAL keys be display on HMI for the operator to select from the above 2 points.
Thanks for your inputs.

Binaural · Mar 1, 2011

1. This process should be indivisible - once started it MUST complete, no way out, or you could leave a system with acid in there
2. Auto control for entire sequence, pop-up manual control panels for pumps etc to allow override of individual parts of the system that may not run

Tharon · Mar 2, 2011

I agree. With something like this, if you paused between steps, you could get bad results if things like the alkali or acid were left stationary on the product longer than expected (because the Operator went to the restroom for an hour instead of pressing the OK button).

Now, that may not be a problem, but really there is no reason why the machine should not automatically step through the sequence. Unless of course you have to have the operator do something between the steps.

TurpoUrpo · Mar 2, 2011

Automatic all the way with lots of alarms and warnings to tell if something is not right.

Longhorn · Mar 2, 2011

Definitely should be auto only but I've seen this done so that higher level access can manually force system onto next step. system should monitor temperature and conductivity etc of return line to guarantee good effective clean. oh And if possible collect your final rinse water to be used as the Initial flush water .

JHarbin · Mar 2, 2011

Longhorn said:
To the optimist, the glass is half full. To the pessimist, the glass is half empty. To the engineer, the glass is twice as big as it needs to be!

This isn't quite true - in my experience they always seem to want at least 20% spare...

jamesau · Mar 2, 2011

Unless there's some compelling reason to do it otherwise, Auto from start to finish. Should have ability to Hold/Restart and Abort with flags to indicate whether process was successful.

Consider a recipe option to do rinse only. Don't know the nature of your soils (or range of products), but in many CIP applications, rinse-only is sufficient to do the job. (Consider too the water/waste savings, ie. load on your water treatment or assessment by your municipality, not to mention energy savings especially if you're using WFI).

Have fun with it...

curlyandshemp · Mar 2, 2011

CIP, now you are talking my language!
How many tanks are you looking at ?
Typically , there is a Rinse, Caustic and Acid. Acid is required if the water in your area is hard or you are using products that cause calcium build up such as milk products.

Will the chemical addition be automatic?
It is always best to have a conductivity sensor on the return line to ensure proper rinsing after chemical steps.

A CIP system should be automatic without any operator input unless chemical needs to be added.
There are also transitional steps that need to be considered,such after the initial rinse, the entire loop is full of fresh water. The Chemical step should push this fresh water to drain for a period of time, then start recirculation .

Any questions, just ask

JesperMP · Mar 2, 2011

So totally outside my normal field of view.
But, as an outsider, I cannot believe that this can be up to some programmers own decision.
There has got to be some strict standard that must be adhered to. No ?

curlyandshemp · Mar 2, 2011

JesperMP said:
So totally outside my normal field of view.
But, as an outsider, I cannot believe that this can be up to some programmers own decision.
There has got to be some strict standard that must be adhered to. No ?

Typically no. You would not beleive how many managers we come across in the food industy that see CIP as a necessary evil, and look for ways to cut corners. A few years ago in the Ontario area a major deli meat manufacturer faced a listeria crisis due to CIP shortcuts.

Typically the procedures with CIP are left up to the chemical rep selling the chemicals and the plant's QC/QA department.

JesperMP · Mar 2, 2011

Unbelievable.

When one thinks about all the measures we have to go through in order to make machines safe. And one should think that in a factory you should asume that stuff is dangerous.

But countering the risk of filling babyfood jars with toxic cleaners is left to everyones own judgement - or willingness to spend. Wow.

JesperMP · Mar 2, 2011

Isnt there something about FDA compliancy for everything that has to do with food or pharma industry ?

curlyandshemp · Mar 2, 2011

JesperMP said:
Unbelievable.

When one thinks about all the measures we have to go through in order to make machines safe. And one should think that in a factory you should asume that stuff is dangerous.

But countering the risk of filling babyfood jars with toxic cleaners is left to everyones own judgement - or willingness to spend. Wow.

There are human checks in place after equipment has been cleaned to ensure no chemicals make it into the final product. So if it does happen, some manager or some QC person was asleep at the wheel.

JesperMP · Mar 2, 2011

Yes, but there must be laws and standards for this, not just voluntary self-discipline.

jamesau · Mar 2, 2011

JesperMP said:
Yes, but there must be laws and standards for this, not just voluntary self-discipline.

We don't know what industry the OP is serving. If food or pharma, GMPs are the applicable US Federal laws (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Good_manufacturing_practice , http://www.fda.gov/).
These do not and are not intended to prescribe how a manufacturing process is to operate.

Clean-In-Place Process

Adam303

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Binaural

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Tharon

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TurpoUrpo

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Longhorn

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JHarbin

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jamesau

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curlyandshemp

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JesperMP

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curlyandshemp

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JesperMP

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jamesau

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