I just found this website and am anxious to get started. I am currently enrolled in an ee program and am seriously considering the plc emphasis. Is this a good or bad thing? are the jobs leaving for this industry like in IT? What other skills are helpful to learn beside the ones offered in my program? you can view it at www.pct.edu my program does not have cad or any programming language that i see . are these required by most employers? what kinds of things can i do at home to learn plc til i start classes this summer? i welcome any and all comments and thanks ahead of time.
new to this
- Thread starter bryhoc30
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ArikBY
Member
First welcome to this forum
I tryed to look on your program but it go to the main page please write the right address/path.
According to what you write It sound bad.
Program without Cad without any programming language.
It look like some thing more closed to electrician not EE.Do you mean EO?(in EO program they have cad)
PLC it small part of EE work.You can be the best programmer and bad EE.
PLCs is part of automation world to enter to this world you should introduced to all aspects.
How you can degine something without cad?
Is that course is not appear in your program?
EDT120
Electrical Drawing and Print Reading
An introduction to preparation and interpretation of residential and commercial electrical drawings, diagrams, and schematics. Provides an introduction to drafting instruments, orthographic projection, sectional views, axonometric projection, and technical sketching. Included is the interpretation of construction drawings, electrical symbols, wiring diagrams, schedules, notation, technical information, and electrical specifications used on electrical drawings. 2 Credits (1 Lecture -3 Lab)
I copyed that from the web site.
I dont know what kind of institute you chosed,or what kind of program The college look nice on the web site.I saw also that they study plumbing and auto repair,Look intresting.
Just for my curiosity send me your program I need to see that.
BTW what is IT?
I maybe sound cynical I just surprised.It different over here.
Arik
I tryed to look on your program but it go to the main page please write the right address/path.
According to what you write It sound bad.
Program without Cad without any programming language.
It look like some thing more closed to electrician not EE.Do you mean EO?(in EO program they have cad)
PLC it small part of EE work.You can be the best programmer and bad EE.
PLCs is part of automation world to enter to this world you should introduced to all aspects.
How you can degine something without cad?
Is that course is not appear in your program?
EDT120
Electrical Drawing and Print Reading
An introduction to preparation and interpretation of residential and commercial electrical drawings, diagrams, and schematics. Provides an introduction to drafting instruments, orthographic projection, sectional views, axonometric projection, and technical sketching. Included is the interpretation of construction drawings, electrical symbols, wiring diagrams, schedules, notation, technical information, and electrical specifications used on electrical drawings. 2 Credits (1 Lecture -3 Lab)
I copyed that from the web site.
I dont know what kind of institute you chosed,or what kind of program The college look nice on the web site.I saw also that they study plumbing and auto repair,Look intresting.
Just for my curiosity send me your program I need to see that.
BTW what is IT?
I maybe sound cynical I just surprised.It different over here.
Arik
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I agree with Arik, a program for EE that does not include CAD seems sorely lacking. How could you design anything in todays market without the abillity to produce digital schematics and swap back and forth over the internet??
For the PLC you could get started with Phil's books / videos ordered on this sight. I highly suggest (as was suggested to me awhile back when I broke into PLCs) getting / using the PLC simulator "ProLogix" which can be gotten at the Learning Pit. They have a free 30 day trial, so check it out.
I wonder though, how can someone truely grasp porgramming a PLC without real world knowledge of all the field devices to which a PLC receives and sends signals to?
Here is a question for the PLC pros. How functional can a green student with classroom taught PLC programming skills be in the real world invironment? Can the student truely grasp the hows and whys?
I suspect they start the learning process all over once they get a job. My point is get a part time job, maybe weekends or summers at a plant or OEM to get some basic hands on experience.
For the PLC you could get started with Phil's books / videos ordered on this sight. I highly suggest (as was suggested to me awhile back when I broke into PLCs) getting / using the PLC simulator "ProLogix" which can be gotten at the Learning Pit. They have a free 30 day trial, so check it out.
I wonder though, how can someone truely grasp porgramming a PLC without real world knowledge of all the field devices to which a PLC receives and sends signals to?
Here is a question for the PLC pros. How functional can a green student with classroom taught PLC programming skills be in the real world invironment? Can the student truely grasp the hows and whys?
I suspect they start the learning process all over once they get a job. My point is get a part time job, maybe weekends or summers at a plant or OEM to get some basic hands on experience.
ArikBY
Member
g.robert
The only way to bring in young blood is to be patient.It take years to get good one.
You need to train someone. start with wireing then cad learn about all the component, let him follow you evry project until he will be abele to do project by him self.
You will replace them like socks untill you will find someone you can trust.The damage that not pro programmer can do is huge.
Or you can get someone give him basic training and send him to the field
and be ready to pay for his mistakes.
Arik
The only way to bring in young blood is to be patient.It take years to get good one.
You need to train someone. start with wireing then cad learn about all the component, let him follow you evry project until he will be abele to do project by him self.
You will replace them like socks untill you will find someone you can trust.The damage that not pro programmer can do is huge.
Or you can get someone give him basic training and send him to the field
and be ready to pay for his mistakes.
Arik
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I fully agree with ArikBY's reply, it takes many years.
You will find many mechanical Eng. is this feild. This is a proof of how important the knowledge of the mechanical aspects of things is important in this job.
You must learn basic pneumatic, mechanic, hydraulic, combustion, chemistry, physics, and more, to be good at programming.
Its an overall knowledge of manufacturing process that is needed. So if you can get a part time job in a real plant it a plus for you.
CAD is a big must.
Purchase a "Starter Kit" from a PLC manufacturer and you will learn more with this than in school (on PLC that is).
You will find many mechanical Eng. is this feild. This is a proof of how important the knowledge of the mechanical aspects of things is important in this job.
You must learn basic pneumatic, mechanic, hydraulic, combustion, chemistry, physics, and more, to be good at programming.
Its an overall knowledge of manufacturing process that is needed. So if you can get a part time job in a real plant it a plus for you.
CAD is a big must.
Purchase a "Starter Kit" from a PLC manufacturer and you will learn more with this than in school (on PLC that is).
can you guys please look at these links and tell me what you think?http://www.plctalk.net/qanda/newreply.php?s=&action=newreply&threadid=6241 http://pct.edu/degrprog/ip.shtml http://pct.edu/degrprog/mt.shtml I know i seen somewhere about the plc here and i am really interested in it . I am already learning html and java then i am moving on to c .I really appreciate all the feedback i am getting also. does anyone maybe have the set of videos and what not they do not need any more> would be will to part with for a fee? I have in the past done networking and troubleshooting of automation systems but only on the home level as in home automation. i am a quick learner and can promise if any one of you trained me it would be well worth the time and effort . not that im asking. thanks again guys.
ArikBY
Member
From briefly look like IP program is more fit for you .
Both of the programs are poor. Do they have more programs?.
You need program that give you more knowlage for industriel electricity.
You need to check your program very well.The info that I got from the web site might be incorrect.
Arik
Both of the programs are poor. Do they have more programs?.
You need program that give you more knowlage for industriel electricity.
You need to check your program very well.The info that I got from the web site might be incorrect.
Arik
dash
Lifetime Supporting Member
bryhoc30,
You may want to look into joining the student chapter of IEEE. I am a mechanical engineer and I participate in a mentoring program with ASME. They have a list of mentors that shows students our resumes that desricribe our work history and personal interest outside of work. From that list a student can select a mentor. When it is an especially interested student I will correspond several times a month with them and sometimes talk on the phone if they are stuck for ideas for design project ideas or the best way to approach a design (real life vs. what is discussed in class). From this I have gotten a good feel for the direction of education for engineers and when I have a very entusiastic student it reminds me of why I chose engineering.
I would check with IEEE and see if they have a similar program. If not I would consider joining ASME (even though you are electrical) for the mentoring program. You would be suprised at the number of mechanical engineers that have a dual degree and actually do the electrical design for industrial automation system. I have a degree in Aerospace Instrumentation and a mechanical engineering degree, which is kind of the short explanation on how I ended up doing electrical work.
Unfortunatly from what I have seen many universities have opted to drop their drafting (CAD) classes for more humanities electives (I guess all of the liberal arts professors think that we do not have a well rounded view of the world). Also, to keep students from being discouraged at engineering being a 5 year program (which it really should) they have tended to drop some of the more "hands on" classes in favor of the more theoretical material. Some of this I think is that by suppling the student with a broad understanding of the subject at the theoretical level you are being trained to be able to dig out the answers for yourself. Also, most (not all) university professors are disconnected from what skills are actually needed in the industrial area.
From what I see of your corriculum it is a good broad base for a four year program. I would also recommend (along with most everyone else here) that you should pick additional electives that will help prepare you for industry, if you are not planning on going on to a masters degree. Of course you need to learn a little about CAD. Enough to get around and understand the lingo. There are many systems out there and most employeers expect you to have to learn their system. The most important is the ability to read schematics and cross reference that to mechanical drawings. A lot of that you will pick up in your general classes.
Next I would say that you need to do additional learning about programming on your own. It looks like they have a few classes to get you started, but you will have to fill in the blank areas from your own interest (or lack of).
If you are planning to go into industrial automation I would try to get some summer jobs in a manufacturing environment. You do not necessarily need to work as an engineering assistant. The summer job I learned the most from was working as a mechanical maintenance person at a large local foundry. That way you get exposed to actual process control, complete mechanical systems, etc.
Enough rambling,
Darren
By the way, no matter what school you go to you can not expect it to to provide all the education you will need. You will need to fill in the eduction with your own specific interest. There will always be something based on someone else's personal experience that your curriculum is lacking. That will be your responsability to fill in that gap. You will only get out of your career what you put in to it.
You may want to look into joining the student chapter of IEEE. I am a mechanical engineer and I participate in a mentoring program with ASME. They have a list of mentors that shows students our resumes that desricribe our work history and personal interest outside of work. From that list a student can select a mentor. When it is an especially interested student I will correspond several times a month with them and sometimes talk on the phone if they are stuck for ideas for design project ideas or the best way to approach a design (real life vs. what is discussed in class). From this I have gotten a good feel for the direction of education for engineers and when I have a very entusiastic student it reminds me of why I chose engineering.
I would check with IEEE and see if they have a similar program. If not I would consider joining ASME (even though you are electrical) for the mentoring program. You would be suprised at the number of mechanical engineers that have a dual degree and actually do the electrical design for industrial automation system. I have a degree in Aerospace Instrumentation and a mechanical engineering degree, which is kind of the short explanation on how I ended up doing electrical work.
Unfortunatly from what I have seen many universities have opted to drop their drafting (CAD) classes for more humanities electives (I guess all of the liberal arts professors think that we do not have a well rounded view of the world). Also, to keep students from being discouraged at engineering being a 5 year program (which it really should) they have tended to drop some of the more "hands on" classes in favor of the more theoretical material. Some of this I think is that by suppling the student with a broad understanding of the subject at the theoretical level you are being trained to be able to dig out the answers for yourself. Also, most (not all) university professors are disconnected from what skills are actually needed in the industrial area.
From what I see of your corriculum it is a good broad base for a four year program. I would also recommend (along with most everyone else here) that you should pick additional electives that will help prepare you for industry, if you are not planning on going on to a masters degree. Of course you need to learn a little about CAD. Enough to get around and understand the lingo. There are many systems out there and most employeers expect you to have to learn their system. The most important is the ability to read schematics and cross reference that to mechanical drawings. A lot of that you will pick up in your general classes.
Next I would say that you need to do additional learning about programming on your own. It looks like they have a few classes to get you started, but you will have to fill in the blank areas from your own interest (or lack of).
If you are planning to go into industrial automation I would try to get some summer jobs in a manufacturing environment. You do not necessarily need to work as an engineering assistant. The summer job I learned the most from was working as a mechanical maintenance person at a large local foundry. That way you get exposed to actual process control, complete mechanical systems, etc.
Enough rambling,
Darren
By the way, no matter what school you go to you can not expect it to to provide all the education you will need. You will need to fill in the eduction with your own specific interest. There will always be something based on someone else's personal experience that your curriculum is lacking. That will be your responsability to fill in that gap. You will only get out of your career what you put in to it.
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WOW!
Hey thanks alot guys(dash,arik and anyone else i forgot) for all the great info looks like i have finally found a good message board. Its about time Ive been to so many others that just complain about not being any jobs anywhere in ee or IT for that matter. I am definetly going to become members today on both the site that were suggested to me. One m,ore question would be am I wasting time learning html and java ? should I just start learning c or visual basic? If so what versions of c are best for this field if any. ALso my school offers a different degree altogether in CAD but I am able to take some of those classes so I think I will.Problem with the internships though is that this is my first semester and they usually start the program in the fall . That being said they are starting it this spring but only at night classes. That means I will have to got full time this summer so no time really for internships. I have been looking for one since my classes will not start until 3 pm ,no luck yet.My plans are only for a 2 yr degree all at once right now cause I have a family to worry about and this is hard enough just going for 2 yrs. Although I definetly without a doubt plan on continueing my education with a bachelor degree in ee or me. which would better suit this fielf?
Thanks again all,have a great day
Hey thanks alot guys(dash,arik and anyone else i forgot) for all the great info looks like i have finally found a good message board. Its about time Ive been to so many others that just complain about not being any jobs anywhere in ee or IT for that matter. I am definetly going to become members today on both the site that were suggested to me. One m,ore question would be am I wasting time learning html and java ? should I just start learning c or visual basic? If so what versions of c are best for this field if any. ALso my school offers a different degree altogether in CAD but I am able to take some of those classes so I think I will.Problem with the internships though is that this is my first semester and they usually start the program in the fall . That being said they are starting it this spring but only at night classes. That means I will have to got full time this summer so no time really for internships. I have been looking for one since my classes will not start until 3 pm ,no luck yet.My plans are only for a 2 yr degree all at once right now cause I have a family to worry about and this is hard enough just going for 2 yrs. Although I definetly without a doubt plan on continueing my education with a bachelor degree in ee or me. which would better suit this fielf?
Thanks again all,have a great day
Peter Nachtwey
Member
PLCs, Motion Controllers, and CAD packages are just tools.
Learn the fundamentals so you know how things work. Physics and math are the two things that most everything is based on. This knowledge will not change unless you are leaning quantum physics. Learning a particular PLC or CAD should not be high on you priority list. They are tools and tools change. The first PLC I programmed was a TI525 using TiSoft. I haven't touched a TI in a couple years now as there are newer PLCs. CAD systems are the same way. We must have had a a half dozen CAD packages for designing ciruit boards. We have another two or there for designing FPGAs. There have also been a very revisions to AutoCad. The point is that these CAD tools have changed and will change in the future. CAD packages and PLCs and even are just tools. You have only so much money or time to take a few classes. Do not use these precious resources to learn something that will be obsolete. The world and technology change. Put a priority on learning the things will be true forever.
Learn the fundamentals so you know how things work. Physics and math are the two things that most everything is based on. This knowledge will not change unless you are leaning quantum physics. Learning a particular PLC or CAD should not be high on you priority list. They are tools and tools change. The first PLC I programmed was a TI525 using TiSoft. I haven't touched a TI in a couple years now as there are newer PLCs. CAD systems are the same way. We must have had a a half dozen CAD packages for designing ciruit boards. We have another two or there for designing FPGAs. There have also been a very revisions to AutoCad. The point is that these CAD tools have changed and will change in the future. CAD packages and PLCs and even are just tools. You have only so much money or time to take a few classes. Do not use these precious resources to learn something that will be obsolete. The world and technology change. Put a priority on learning the things will be true forever.
peter, where then do 'you' suggest i start shouldnt i at least learn cad if not for the tech for the tools themselves? from what i understand alot of them remain the same? also where in programming do i begin in your opinion? I have already had college algebra and trig and received an A in it next on to the calculus I have never had much trouble in math or physic for that matter. when it comes to those two i just 'get it'. you know what i mean.thanks again, bryan
ArikBY
Member
Peter
Sorry to disagree. to Learn the fundamentals is very important.no doubt.
But who going to hire someone without any PLC or cad knowledge.
You can find some super talent. that learn the PLC cad or whatever so fast you cannot imagine,You can push him to the cold water and be sure he will swim out. but they very rare.( I had someone like that)
but most of the people need to start from some point so basic college knowledge is must.
Arik
Sorry to disagree. to Learn the fundamentals is very important.no doubt.
But who going to hire someone without any PLC or cad knowledge.
You can find some super talent. that learn the PLC cad or whatever so fast you cannot imagine,You can push him to the cold water and be sure he will swim out. but they very rare.( I had someone like that)
but most of the people need to start from some point so basic college knowledge is must.
Arik
It is true that all of the softwares we work within today will at some time be obsolete. However, a firm understanding of the softwares used today will only aid the user in the learning curve of tomorrow's softwares.(IMHO)
Tools...
Peter and Arik,
I agree that No Particular Set of Tools is important to learn, because the tools will change. However, I feel it is very important (after a good grounding in basic physics, math, etc.) to learn A Set of Tools.
Working with a concrete expression of the abstract "plc programming" or "cad" provides a basis for much more rapid adoption of what ever tools are in use.
Somewhere in between the basics and the tools should be "systems". How to look at engineered objects as part of a complete system. This idea has more to do with being able to conciously change our "depth of field" from control valve to fluid flow within the valve and out to the valve as part of a functional press....
(got off on a ramble....)
Thomas
Peter and Arik,
I agree that No Particular Set of Tools is important to learn, because the tools will change. However, I feel it is very important (after a good grounding in basic physics, math, etc.) to learn A Set of Tools.
Working with a concrete expression of the abstract "plc programming" or "cad" provides a basis for much more rapid adoption of what ever tools are in use.
Somewhere in between the basics and the tools should be "systems". How to look at engineered objects as part of a complete system. This idea has more to do with being able to conciously change our "depth of field" from control valve to fluid flow within the valve and out to the valve as part of a functional press....
(got off on a ramble....)
Thomas