Fix it 'til its broke

KEN_KACEL · Apr 5, 2011

Since few are building new widgets in our neck of the woods much of our business has shifted to service. Some service calls are for intermittent problems. Hookup with the PLC and find the right area, get the understanding but the machine will not malfunction. 2 to 3hrs goes by and still no malfunction. Jiggle wires ,force I/O and nothing breaks. How do you bill for something that you don't repair? Or how do you make the customer understand the value added of not fixing a machine? The medical profession has this down to a science.

Ned_Flanders · Apr 5, 2011

I think the auto trade has this down to a fine art!!!

Any modern car gets charged a "diagnostic" hook up.

I would suggest asking the customer if the fault is intermittant and what is the frequency of the fault. Charge for the checks that you do.
If the fault happens again, you can rule out the things you have tested.

I used to work for a company that worked like this. We had one customer who had a lot of printing presses and the manufacturer charged an absolute fortune per service call, so the customer would rather pay us for 3 hours hoping we could fix the fault. More often than not, we could.

Brijm · Apr 5, 2011

I've found that most industrial places understand, that if you cannot reproduce the problem, then it may be difficult to fix. And have no problem with billing. I simply tell them what all I did, what I tried, and what information I got. Depending the the necessity of the machine, and if you had been there before, you may need to shotgun parts. Explaining, that you cannot pinpoint the problem, but this is a best guess, to move forward making sure the customer understands what is going on.
It's interesting you mention the medical field. I use to work in medical X-Ray, and they did not understand this at all. I was called three times on a once a week problem (Changed a few parts each time). They where calling my boss, and throwing a fit. Even though I explained, that I could stand their all day, and not see the problem, let alone know if I fixed it.

leitmotif · Apr 5, 2011

Brijm said:
I've found that most industrial places understand, that if you cannot reproduce the problem, then it may be difficult to fix. And have no problem with billing. I simply tell them what all I did, what I tried, and what information I got. Depending the the necessity of the machine, and if you had been there before, you may need to shotgun parts. Explaining, that you cannot pinpoint the problem, but this is a best guess, to move forward making sure the customer understands what is going on.
It's interesting you mention the medical field. I use to work in medical X-Ray, and they did not understand this at all. I was called three times on a once a week problem (Changed a few parts each time). They where calling my boss, and throwing a fit. Even though I explained, that I could stand their all day, and not see the problem, let alone know if I fixed it.

Ah they do not understand it when THEY are billed.
BUT
Like lawyers they go by billable hours.

No you do not have XXXX here is your $125 consultation BILL.

Your kid has the common cold it is a viral infection. No I cannot give him an antibiotic they do not work on viruses. $125 please.

AND if you miss an appointment they bill you.
BUT do they pay us to wait for the doc for an hour??

Dan Bentler

OkiePC · Apr 5, 2011

Here's what I do while waiting on Gremlins:

Read and verify drawings, make notes of discrepancies if any.

Clean the panel...no more wire bits, broken zip-ties and sticky back mounting pads and screws and relay parts and fuses...I hate fuses laying in the bottom of the panel...They should be laying on the panduit in the box marked good, and all bad fuses must go in your pockets and then into the trash...big pet peeve mine...

Check for loose connections, loose seals, hinges, mechanical soundness of the machine. You did that, and there is some worth.

Give them everything you learned during this study, then they'll need you and call you again next time having gained some new knowledge of the machine from you.

Certainly they understand your time alone is billable, and most service techs in your shoes really don't give that much when there's "No Problem Found." which is very disappointing.

If you say, I found some loose terminals, and tidied up the panel, here are some potential causes of the described problem if it crops up again, they have gained something.

Absolutely do NOT throw expen$ive parts at a problem in an attempt to look useful...'nuther pet peeve

KEN_KACEL · Apr 6, 2011

OkiePC said:
Here's what I do while waiting on Gremlins:

Read and verify drawings, make notes of discrepancies if any.

Clean the panel...no more wire bits, broken zip-ties and sticky back mounting pads and screws and relay parts and fuses...I hate fuses laying in the bottom of the panel...They should be laying on the panduit in the box marked good, and all bad fuses must go in your pockets and then into the trash...big pet peeve mine...

Check for loose connections, loose seals, hinges, mechanical soundness of the machine. You did that, and there is some worth.

Give them everything you learned during this study, then they'll need you and call you again next time having gained some new knowledge of the machine from you.

Certainly they understand your time alone is billable, and most service techs in your shoes really don't give that much when there's "No Problem Found." which is very disappointing.

If you say, I found some loose terminals, and tidied up the panel, here are some potential causes of the described problem if it crops up again, they have gained something.

Absolutely do NOT throw expen$ive parts at a problem in an attempt to look useful...'nuther pet peeve

Thanks for the sound advice. I did make an alarm change to help identify when the fault occured.

Tom Jenkins · Apr 6, 2011

Another thing that eases the pain: Always provide a written report, identifying the reason for the call out (emphasize "intermittent" problem), the diagonstics and preventive maintenance you performed, any problems identified and the related fix completed or recommended, and suggestions for steps the plant should take if the problem recurrs.

Don't BS the client, and don't feel guilty about charging for your time. Time is your stock in trade.

KEN_KACEL · Apr 6, 2011

Tom Jenkins said:
Another thing that eases the pain: Always provide a written report, identifying the reason for the call out (emphasize "intermittent" problem), the diagonstics and preventive maintenance you performed, any problems identified and the related fix completed or recommended, and suggestions for steps the plant should take if the problem recurrs.

Don't BS the client, and don't feel guilty about charging for your time. Time is your stock in trade.

This should be a must... When the bill comes in the mail with no explaination just a number it tends to be a turn off.

Fix it 'til its broke

KEN_KACEL

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Ned_Flanders

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Brijm

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leitmotif

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OkiePC

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KEN_KACEL

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Tom Jenkins

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KEN_KACEL

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