Signal amplification

Hi all, ,My company designs steam generators and we got a project where we have to put one of our steam generators downhole in an oil field. We need to measure the pressure and temperature of the steam generated by the steam generator and send the signal to the surface. We have decided to go with Paine electronics pressure and temperature transducer that comes with an inbuilt amplifier. Following is the link to it

http://www.paineelectronics.com/pdf/212-40-020-DS.pdf

The tool has to be placed 3000 ft deep. Even though the transducer has an inbuilt amplifier we are still not getting accurate results. I'm new to all this. I heard that they use signal repeaters or signal amplifiers so that I get the signal to the surface. But our tool is not wireless.we are using cables to connect everything downhole.Can anyone please tell me how to amplify the signal?

Thank you!!
Ding.

@ bce123

If they design something for our needs then it is gonna be very expensive and we cannot afford that. That will be our last choice. Are there any other alternatives out there in the market that can amplify the signals?

Thank you
Ding

Do they have a similar product that would provide 4-20mA signals instead of voltage signals? At that distance, an analog voltage signal is going to be a problem in any environment...

Also, please define your accuracy requirements -vs- what you're actually getting. What size of wire are you using? It could be as simple as going to a larger wire to reduce voltage drop... maybe...


And "... it is gonna be very expensive and we cannot afford that." How much is accuracy worth? How much is it worth if it DOESN'T work??

This appears to be a bit of a niche market - you ~might~ be stuck with working with them.

can you give plc type input type voltage wire size wire type or cable # do you have wiring diag. tell us more info

ddeshi2 said:

The tool has to be placed 3000 ft deep.

Click to expand...

Remember that this means the signal path is 6000 ft.

ddeshi2 said:

it is gonna be very expensive and we cannot afford that

Click to expand...

The real question then is if you can afford not satisfying the customer?

How expensive is expensive. What you are doing doesn't work so you are either going to have to spend more money or quit. Assuming you will move forward, how much can you spend?

<disclaimer: I work for a Phoenix Contact Distributor>
Phoenix Contact makes signal multiplexers that combine digital and analog signals on a communication cable. They can achieve very long distances up to 12km. This might be in the $5000 range not including power supply and enclosures. Also, you'd have to verify the unit in the hole can withstand the environment.

What is the ambient operating temperature that the device is exposed to at 3000 feet down?

Is the sensor designed for that temperature (and pressure)?

@ all

Yes, we need accuracy and we are also willing to spend money to get the desired results (my boss has agreed to spend some money). All I wanted to know whether there is any other method to amplify the signals instead of going with a custom designed transducer for our needs. Looking at y'all replies I think the answer is NO.

@ danw
The sensor is designed to withstand a temperature of 419 F and a pressure of 5000 PSI

@ ndzied1

Can you please send me the link to those signal multiplexers

@bce123
We are using compactlogix PLC , analog input, 8 AWG wire, Belden 8760 WIRE. We can't use a different size wire because of space limitations downhole.

@ OZEE
We are using 8 AWG wire, Belden 8760 WIRE. We can't use a different size wire because of space limitations downhole.


Thank you!

Ding

ddeshi2 said:

@ ndzied1

Can you please send me the link to those signal multiplexers

Click to expand...

Best way to get there is to go to the Phoenix Contact Site:
http://www.phoenixcon.com

And search on the part number of the base: 2861205

You will probably want to download the data sheet as well as:
Configuring and installing the Inline field multiplexer

And as my original message said, This may not survive in the environment down in the hole...

But w/ 8AWG wire, you may be able to do this w/ a 4-20mA signal. You have to do the calculations on the total loop resistance for the transmitter (provided you can switch to a current style transmitter).