Controls for new manufacturing plant - red lion or AB?

Hoping you all can help me out...

I am in the process of building a new food manufacturing plant and have an opportunity to completely start over with my controls. In our current location everything has always been AB but I am tired of paying the RSLogix licence fee and dealing with DOA components.

Seeing that no panels have been built and I have not awarded the electrical contract, what are your thoughts on red lion? In addition, how about their HMIs?

I feel I have a great opportunity to try something new that may be superior to AB and wondering if it is worth the trouble of teaching this old dog some new tricks......

Any hplp would be appreciated!

Thank you,
Chris

I have no experience with Red Lion's controllers, but I like their HMIs.

How much of the work are you doing yourself and how much will you be farming out? Consider contacting the local PLC distributors and invite them in to pitch their products. Select the one that you feel most comfortable working with and that you think will best be able to support you.

I will initially be farming the entire job out. After the everything is complete I will be the person maintaing the system. I plan on automating everything from my air compressors to my process pumps.

Right now I am essentially the project manager/general contractor for the entire project and simply do have the time to do it all. I have heard great things about the HMIs but have not heard anything about their processors...

Far as I know RLC don't have PLCs only HMIs and some other equipment.

I feel your pain when it comes to license fees/headaches when it comes to AB. In my experience, however, DOA components from them are few and far between. I've never had trouble getting replacements for bad parts either.
Have you considered any other PLC/HMI manufacturers, like GE or Siemens?

Red lion Controls have a good reputation.
Their HMI's are easy to program
And they are a multi-PLC compatible
I advise most customers to consider a multi platform HMI
Proface is another - the list goes on.

As far as PLC's - look to your future.
- IEC 61113 etc.
- Do you or will you need extensive networking

The constant license fee and factory Talk fee is getting under everyone's skin.
Also for every new item you need an upgrade
the companies that sell individual packages for HMI, PLC and NETWORK.
and charge huge dollars.

Consider Omron or similar - their programming Package covers their entire range.





Omron -

I have worked with red lion products and AB; If I were you, I would go with Red Lion or Automation Direct HMI. You will be glad that you did.

Red Lion HMI (well, ANY HMI aside from AB/Rockwell).
AB PLC's.

Red Lion makes a great product- with that being said
"would I base a complete plant around their product?"

My answer is no. I would use a manufacturer that makes it all.
Switchgear, MMC, motors,drives and are experts in bakery control. Can Red Lion network all this together? I have no idea. Where will Red Lion be in 5 to 10 years, bought out by someone else?
How does RL do batch control? High end PID?...

Stay with the big boys
Pick 3 manufacturers and have them bring in products and discuss. Find out how good your local support is. Find out how good the distributor is. Can you get local training?....
Do they stock parts...etc...

PLC said:

Red Lion makes a great product- with that being said
"would I base a complete plant around their product?"

My answer is no. I would use a manufacturer that makes it all.
Switchgear, MMC, motors,drives and are experts in bakery control. Can Red Lion network all this together? I have no idea. Where will Red Lion be in 5 to 10 years, bought out by someone else?
How does RL do batch control? High end PID?...

Stay with the big boys
Pick 3 manufacturers and have them bring in products and discuss. Find out how good your local support is. Find out how good the distributor is. Can you get local training?....
Do they stock parts...etc...

Click to expand...

+1

I've no experience with red-lion, but a few years ago I had the same chance, and bought Exor HMI panels.
If I could turn back the clock, I would go for AB panels, as we use AB PLC's.

Jack

I think Red Lion HMI longevity will match or exceed A/B. They are big boys, and I have dealt with their process controllers and counter modules (which I can still repair, buy or easily update to the latest models) for 20 years.

Using one mfg that makes everything from switchgear to prox switches sounds good on paper, but I have never really seen much advantage to paying 2-3 times what you should but getting a 30% discount...

I think it is wise/useful to have the same mfg for PLCs and VFDs, since they (in this day and age) can be so tightly integrated, but with open comms standards, this can occur between mfgs more than in the past too.

I would be hesitant to use non-A/B PLCs though. I might consider A/D Productivity 3000 stuff, but I would have to do a lot of number crunching before risking a large installed base on a newbie to the PLC world, and I am not sure using the older koyo products would be wise either, although they seem to have an indefinite market life expectancy.

I would avoid schneider vfds and plcs, based on my impression that they evolve too often and have not been user friendly to me in the past. If I went with a/b PLCs, and all Logix5K based, I would rest easy knowing the hardware would be available and reliable for many many years, although I might spend more, this would be an area I could justify it.

I don't know about a lot about Redlion, but I know a lot of people are starting to use Beckhoff TwinCAT in our industy.

My example of a big boy is a manufacturer controlling a complete steel mill or process plant
Tell me where Red Lion or Automation Direct is doing that?

Anyway- if your trying to save a buck on each item
Then piece it together with different manufacturers

RedLion HMIs and AB Plcs (or Siemens S7-300's which i prefer)

dskohio said:

I don't know about a lot about Redlion, but I know a lot of people are starting to use Beckhoff TwinCAT in our industy.

Click to expand...

Beckhoff is well worth a look. Good hardware, powerful Codesys programming, and not expensive.