Redlion G3 Workshop

jdbeal

Member
Join Date
Feb 2006
Location
Denver CO
Posts
34
I attended a workshop today at one of our distributors on the Redlion G3. I left a little mad at myself over the amount of money that I have poured down the drain on HMIs, hardware network translators and software OPC servers over the years. Redlion has made an incredible product that shows a lot of potential of becoming even better.

One project that we have been discussing in our facility recently will probably be resolved for 10s of thousands less than we had been discussing if I can prove a couple of things functionally which is where this post comes from.

We have been discussing how to improve our data acquisition from our control networks and moving that data into our business side SQL server installation. From what I saw today the G3 data acquisition units will fit the bill perfectly as long as I can prove to things.

1) That two ethernet ports in the unit are completely isolated so that nothing can get from the internet connected business network into the the isolated control network. This seemed to be a pretty straight forward non-issue from what I saw.

2) That we can prove and handle a success or failure of the SQL transaction to maintain our data integrity. This seemed a little more convoluted on how I would determine if the transfer was successful and clear out my existing data logs only if the transfer completed. The functionality I know I will need to prove is a success full write followed by a internal log clear, if a failure occurs do not clear logs and issue notification in some fashion that the SQL transfer failed so the issue can be resolved before the internal log is full and any data is lost. I saw that there is a log file generated that could be parsed but what I was really hoping to see was the ability to launch a program immediately upon the response from the SQL server. If anyone has any suggestions on how I can prove this out I would greatly appreciative.

My first impression was that this was a great product and I saw visions of how with a little more functionality added that it could become a distributed, modular and computer-less SCADA system. I walked in thinking this would be yet another machine level HMI class and left thinking that the HMI functionality was only an added bonus of this hardware. If I could figure out how to make it talk to our Reliance Automax heads in our DC Drives it would save hundreds of thousands of dollars on our modernization plans.

Good Job Red Lion
 
I attended a workshop today at one of our distributors on the Redlion G3. I left a little mad at myself over the amount of money that I have poured down the drain on HMIs, hardware network translators and software OPC servers over the years. Redlion has made an incredible product that shows a lot of potential of becoming even better.

One project that we have been discussing in our facility recently will probably be resolved for 10s of thousands less than we had been discussing if I can prove a couple of things functionally which is where this post comes from.

We have been discussing how to improve our data acquisition from our control networks and moving that data into our business side SQL server installation. From what I saw today the G3 data acquisition units will fit the bill perfectly as long as I can prove to things.

1) That two ethernet ports in the unit are completely isolated so that nothing can get from the internet connected business network into the the isolated control network. This seemed to be a pretty straight forward non-issue from what I saw.

2) That we can prove and handle a success or failure of the SQL transaction to maintain our data integrity. This seemed a little more convoluted on how I would determine if the transfer was successful and clear out my existing data logs only if the transfer completed. The functionality I know I will need to prove is a success full write followed by a internal log clear, if a failure occurs do not clear logs and issue notification in some fashion that the SQL transfer failed so the issue can be resolved before the internal log is full and any data is lost. I saw that there is a log file generated that could be parsed but what I was really hoping to see was the ability to launch a program immediately upon the response from the SQL server. If anyone has any suggestions on how I can prove this out I would greatly appreciative.

My first impression was that this was a great product and I saw visions of how with a little more functionality added that it could become a distributed, modular and computer-less SCADA system. I walked in thinking this would be yet another machine level HMI class and left thinking that the HMI functionality was only an added bonus of this hardware. If I could figure out how to make it talk to our Reliance Automax heads in our DC Drives it would save hundreds of thousands of dollars on our modernization plans.

Good Job Red Lion


I agree that the G31x and the DSPxx are great units.

Don't know about number 2, but number 1 is no problem. At least the G310 and G315 can have two ethernet ports and they can be on different subnets. I have done this several times.

I've also used DSPLEs as network isolators with two ethernet cards - one as a Modbus TCP master and the other as a Modbus TCP slave.

The more you learn the better you will like them.
 
There are several automax to modbus, there is a df1 card for automax, there are Ethernet cards that willset on the AMX network and give you access over enet instead of serial.
The RL kickA$$. They have great support
 
Glad to hear you enjoyed the workshop. If you have any questions we will be glad to help.

1. Yes the two Ethernet ports are completely independent. The only data shared between the two ports would be the data that you configure through gateway blocks if you choose to do so.

2. There is no way to determine a success or failure on the SQL Sync besides the log file which can be generated. I see that you are interested in this because you want to clear the log files in a successful transfer. Personally I wouldn't recommend this because the function synchronizes the files from the CF card to the server. After the initial transfer it will then only send the changes. If you miss a transfer or there is a problem the next time the transfer happens you will still get all of the changes. Don't worry about filling up the card. The logs are created as FIFO so once you reach your max amount of configured files it will replace the oldest files.

Thanks
Jeremy
 
I'm looking at SCADA packages again, which we don't do very many of. I'm wishing again, that there was a Crimson SCADA

I won't mention the venders demo, that I'm using, but when I first started using Crimson, everything was fairly intuitive. With this, even changing screens is a headache.
 
@JeffKipper - We have all of those card spread out through our various Automax systems. The price and availability on the Automax is starting to become an issue for us and will only become more so as time passes ... we have to phase them out up to the remote heads in the VMax drives which are way too expensive to think about replacing at the moment. Most of our installs are already working with a ControlLogix between the Automax and Automates (some of which are now CLGX remote IO) and the rest of the control system. Just looking at the end game phase out of Automax within the next 5 years or so.

@JeremyH - As I suspected the first response I got when I mentioned pushing logs to SQL was a) How do we validated the data - Programs in the G3 and b) How do we guarantee data transfer and integrity knowing that the SQL tables created by the G3 are only going to be there until the server relocates the data to its final destination in the data warehouse. Parsing the log was the only answer I had and it raised eyebrows as to whether that would be acceptable.
 
That is the one card that we don't have although I am hoping to get my hands on one but that doesn't look like it will be easy from what I have seen. If I do I will let you know how it works ... the documentation looks like it would work really well for us especially on one machine that has 13 automax racks in it.
 
I have a buddy that works for rockwell. He is a field support the specializing in automax. He said the card was decent.
The last amx system I worked on was a hybrid system. They had reliance dc drives control through analog. The speed regulation was done an auto max. Current regulation was done by the drive. It's communicated to plc 5 via DF1 Over too short haul modems @1200 baud then to a kf2 box trouble end up on DH+. When you're the only 1 that knows that system it sucks. Any and every problem was the automax. It didn't matter that the bearings were gone in a gearbox the automax was a problem. Forklift hit the encoder the automax must have lost it's program.
I really enjoyed working with that system. It was definitely a learning experience.
 
For over a year now I've had an Automax Hybrid system talking to a G3 using Modbus; this is primarily for some data logging activities, but it works as well as any other G3 installation we've got out there. The G3 is also connected to a TI545 system. This communication setup replaced an ASCII serial link between the Automax and a BASIC module in a TI545 rack; I recall (with pain) writing drivers for this back around 1993. The G3 Modbus connection was far simpler to implement than the ASCII serial job was.

I had looked at the Profibus-DP interface for the Automax quite a while back, but it was priced so far out of range you'd have thought it was being manufactured on Mars.

Tom
 
I am only a couple of months into my gig at this facility and it is my first exposure to Automax and from how this thread has went I can see that we have a good selection of communications options for Automax. We have Ethernet Automax cards, Ethernet to AMXNetwork standalone adapters, Modbus cards, BASIC cards and something called a BIT3 card that looks like it was made in someones garage that used to maybe talk to a mainframe but now we aren't sure and no one is brave enough to remove it from the rack to find out that it is not talking to anything anymore.

We are trying to phase out the Automax and even more so our Automate rails with ControlLogix but it is a slow and arduous process with a lot of work yet to do. Some of the systems are hybrid now and some are still pure Automax/Automate installs. I don't think we will every truly get them all replaced until the DC Drives are replaced and at this point they are so easy to rebuild at the component level that the replacement costs are not justified.

We have hybridized some machines to the point they are nearly impossible to figure out what is going on with 5 types of processors and 3 different HMI packages on them passing information around in what looks like an infinite loop.
 
systems with 5 in 6 different controls are great I love reverse engineering those. I like to try to figure out why they did something the way they did.
They're always fun. The system I worked on no 1 could tell me why. It was just a black box in magical. The communications were the funnest part to reverse engineer.
I did some serial capturing and found out the messages were plc 3 style messaging. Ken Roach and Archie Jacobs helped me break down the packet to understand it better.
We truly have a GURUs on this website
 
I agree completely Jeff, I left a good job with an electrical/automation contractor in the area when I was offered the opportunity to "own" this control system. So far it has been just as challenging as I had hoped and doesn't show any signs of becoming mundane anytime in the foreseeable future. And I am very glad to have this resource available and to now know there are Automax experts on here as well.
 

Similar Topics

Hey guys, hoping someone here could give me a little advice. I'm working with a CR1000-04000 in Crimson 3.1 and I was interested in adding the...
Replies
4
Views
95
Hi, I have a complex database in Crimson 3.0 and in one of the display pages I am trying to get a tag to show the sum of several other tags. The...
Replies
3
Views
158
Hi All, Hoping to get some insight into best way to terminate shielded twisted pair + common into a RJ45 required for RedLion RS485...
Replies
3
Views
211
I have 8 of these systems all running the same code. Just this one seem to gain about 30 seconds in time everyday. So in 48hrs time will be...
Replies
3
Views
650
Hello, can anyone help with what driver to use in Crimson to communicate Ethernet/IP to a Prosoft PLX31-EIP-MBS gateway. The gateway will pull...
Replies
6
Views
817
Back
Top Bottom