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View Full Version : OT : How to Write a Employee Termination Report


The Plc Kid
February 20th, 2012, 02:53 PM
So my boss has given me the task of writing up a document that has info on a underperforming employee to say the least. The boss has his mind made up to get rid of him and he is correct in doing so because the guy really is not worth the pay he is getting.

For the amount of work he does he should be paying the company to be here. He has been taliked to many times,written up,etc,etc.

The boss just wants something written on his job performance and I have many tasks he was assigned to do where a 4 hr job took 3 days, Many tasks were never started and many never completed.He always has to leave early when there is a hard job to do and spends 80% of his time on his phone outside while other guys are working. All the men in the department want this guy gone because he makes no attempt to do his share of the work but makes more than most of them.

My question is how should a document like this be written? How should it start? What would be the format?

I don't know how I got to be a part of this but our boss is sort of new and wants me to handle this for him turn key. His words to me were " draft a document on his performance and have it ready when I get back nad It should have enough information with grounds to fire him"

I have enough information just don't know how to word it and format it.

I just need some tips from someone who has done this because I don't even know where to start.

donnedved1960
February 20th, 2012, 03:02 PM
Boy, first, I am VERY surprised your boss is not having an HR person do this. You guys are treading on thin ice in terms of labor law.

But if you proceed, I'm guessing GA is like most states any more as in "right to hire, right to fire" anyone for anything except the explicitly unlawful reasons. (Race, age, etc.) So, that being said, you really don't have to be explicit in any form. I would simply state that is performance and contribution to the company was not satisfactory and you are hereby terminated. Simple as that.

Good luck!! And try to pawn this off to an HR person!!

gas
February 20th, 2012, 03:16 PM
That's his job, not yours!!!
Without input from company legal or HR you can be setting yourself up for some major legal problems.
Where is the documentation from the previous trips to the woodshed? If done right that should suffice. Otherwise you are going to have this guy for a while longer.

The Plc Kid
February 20th, 2012, 03:19 PM
The boss and HR is going to fire him not me and all his other past documents will be included but the boss wants something from me because he has only been in my department about 6 months.

Me and my guys work with him everyday so that is why the boss wanted something from me on the day to day of the guy.

Mickey
February 20th, 2012, 03:29 PM
The advice you are getting from donnedved1960 and gas is spot on. I once had a request from a company VP to evaluate a group of people for a new promotional position. After gathering the info I did have HR write the report. When I went to present the report to the VP he wanted no part of the report. We just sat down over lunch and he asked me questions. He did not want me to refer to the report or even know it existed.

Obviously this VP knew better.

Timbert
February 20th, 2012, 03:36 PM
I agree that HR should be the one that writes any kind of "termination report." I understand he wants your input as well. As was said artfully before, where is the previous documentation from 'trips to the woodshed.'

You should only address specific goals and measures of performance that were previously documented in which he failed to meet. They did set specific performance goals didn't they?

For example, just write that at counseling meeting held on blah blah, employee was given XYZ assignment to be completed by blah blah + 3 days. Employee failed to complete XYZ assignment.

Anything else such as "He's not pulling his weight" is not objective. As Joe Friday would say "Just the facts." If you can't show documentation, it didn't happen; could you prove it in a court of law (because it could end up there.)

Again this is information that your HR should be giving you as to what they want to see, but personally I wouldn't write anything I couldn't back up.

HJTRBO
February 20th, 2012, 03:59 PM
I did this last year.

I'm not sure if this will help, but bascilly we used a spreadsheet to document date and offence. The employee was put on performance notice with a review to be carried out every two weeks with a union delegate, himself, myself and the manager present. He was given clear (realistic) performance targets to meet during the next two weeks.

Luckily for us he took two days to get back to his old ways, which wasd documented and at his next performance review it was agreed between all parties (except himself of course) that he failed to meet the performance requirements and was fired on the spot.:shock:

Clay B.
February 20th, 2012, 04:18 PM
The problem you have is you are being asked to make a document after the fact. A performance evaluation should be agreed to before the work starts. Kinda hard to say someone did not complete the work fast enough when you didn't tell him the time limit to begin with. If it was an ability issue, was he informed he would be required to know how to work?

The best you can do is a performance opinion. Basically this says employee is supposed to do x and he sucks at it and he does not manage his time well in your opinion and this is what you base your opinion on. You have to have someone who does the same job but does it right and use them as an example. Then give this to HR and your boss and run like he%*. Georgia is a "right to work" state but you have to prove you had justification to fire someone so they cannot claim you fired them over discrimination.

Mark Buskell
February 20th, 2012, 05:17 PM
It may be easier just to lay him off due to a temporary reduction in work force. At one of my previos employers in Georgia, another employee told the boss that this employee stole something and put it in his trunk. The boss made him open the trunk, found the items and then fired the employee. Well after a year fighting with the labor board, they said we would have to hire him back and pay him for all of his lost wages. They said that once the item was in his trunk, it became a police issue and the boss had no right to make the man open his trunk. Since it was an illegal search, there was no evidence to fire him. Well he came back to work after that, they took him in the office and then layed him off due to a reduction in manpower. This was perfectly legal. My point is if he claims any type of discrimination, it may ending up costing you more in the long run then simply laying him off.

Mtech
February 20th, 2012, 05:40 PM
Is your boss asking you for a performance review of this guy. So he can include this in his termination meeting? Or is he wanting you to draft a personnel action form that states his termination. Termination for substandard job performance is simple as long as everyone has documented both pros and cons. Let me if you are wanting to know how this form needs to read. If done this **** a lot,unfortunately.

LadderLogic
February 20th, 2012, 06:13 PM
Now, this is how hard it is to fire someone in the US where people tend to think this this is easy. Can you imagine getting rid of a bad worker like this in Europe?

donnedved1960
February 20th, 2012, 06:17 PM
It really depends on what state you live in. Here in Kansas and Missouri, you can be fired for the color of shirt you wore that day.

JeffKiper
February 20th, 2012, 06:21 PM
Your fired! !!!. Oh yea and you suck at your OLD job.

Timbert
February 20th, 2012, 06:38 PM
Now, this is how hard it is to fire someone in the US where people tend to think this this is easy. Can you imagine getting rid of a bad worker like this in Europe?

In most places it is easy to fire someone. It's just hard to cover your backside from a litigious ex-employee.

Sure you could fire someone for the color of their shirt, but if you don't document a written company policy of wearing only blue shirts. Show that you counseled them against wearing red shirts. Document that you told them if they were to wear a red shirt again you will terminate them. Then document they wore a red shirt. They could easily sue the company and you personally for terminating them based on hair color not shirt color.

I liken it to writing design specifications, they should be necessary, unambiguous, quantitative, and verifiable.

brucechase
February 20th, 2012, 08:20 PM
Not everyone is cut out to perform every job. If he has been written up, then your boss should be using that. If this has been documented in the past, then that is what is needed. Remember - this employee is a person and deserves to be treated fairly - even if he isn't capable of doing the assigned work.

This is not the place to post stuff like he should be paying the company and he spends 80% of the time on the phone (unless you had detailed phone records and a company policy). I would bet that your HR department would blow a gasket if they knew you were posting information about an employee on the internet.

My suggestion is to talk this over with your HR department FIRST, before you start writing things down. And, if I were in your shoes, I would ask Phil to delete this post, and hope this doesn't land on some lawyer's desk. Of course, this is just my opinion.

Ken Moore
February 20th, 2012, 08:43 PM
I agree, this is not the place for something like this. Run away!

Kidblue
February 21st, 2012, 03:37 AM
Errrm...presumably you're confident he doesn't frequent this forum?! :whistle: May make things (even more) awkward...just saying!

Rob

bce123
February 21st, 2012, 07:31 AM
The best advice I can give you is just fire the guy with no documented reason. Just simply state his services are no longer needed.

Jeebs
February 21st, 2012, 09:28 AM
Reason for termination: You are the weakest link. Goodbye.

James Mcquade
February 21st, 2012, 10:11 AM
Kid,

the advice from Donnedved1960, gas, Clay B hit the nail spot on.

Your our boss is putting you in a position to be fired as well.

unless you have performance evaluations and manager / employee meetings documented, all you can do is give an opinion.

you cannot document his work ethics after the fact!
all you can do is cite what you have observed, nothing more!
you then must get with HR and discuss with them what you were asked to do. DO not hand the recommendation to your boss, if you do, it can turn into politics if the fired employee fights it in court and your name is on the termination papers, not your bosses or HR's.

regards,
james

Tom Jenkins
February 21st, 2012, 10:32 AM
I am NOT a personnel professional (HR to you kids), so this is a non-professional opinion. And my company was too small for HR - I did it all myself.

First of all, the time to start documenting performance, poor or excellent, is before things get to extremes. If I had a sense that someone wan't working out, I stuck a dated informal note in his personnel file for each incident of any consequence. Annual reviews are wonderful, but actually I never had a leaker last long enough to get to a six month review!

When I concluded that an employee wan't worth what I was paying them, it was frankly by gut feel, not my notes. But I felt it was important to document the reasons.

On the day of separation I'd call them in, tell them that my company wasn't a good match for their talents, and that they were no longer my employee. I had the file with the notes at hand, but not one employee ever asked to see them, and only one even asked for a reason for dismissal. (She was psycho anyway - interviewed well but only lasted a week). An employee knows when they aren't doing a good job, really.

In my opinion, the keys to dismissing an employee are:
Be prepared
Be professional
Be FIRM
Be courteous
Be BRIEF

SD_Scott
February 21st, 2012, 01:03 PM
In my opinion it is dangerous and unprofessional to discuss this in public. You never know who might be sniffin around.

Ned_Flanders
February 21st, 2012, 03:26 PM
I agree with everything so far. Really, HR should ask you questions that you reply Yes or no to. As has been said, you could put yourself in a very akward situation with the employee concerned. I also agree that you know yourself when things are not working out yourself - unless you are completely oblivious!!

The Plc Kid
February 21st, 2012, 10:15 PM
Just to clarify I do have notes on him that I have kept since day one in my department because Iknew this whole situation was bad news.

This is just a report to my boss of facts jobs he was assigned and level of completion and If there were any callbacks on the work which there were about half the time.

The boss and HR will handle all the termination. My report is just facts on his daily work and I have detailed notes on that. They are facts only the do not lead to a good or bad conclusion as far as my notes are written.

There is no danger of the person seeing this post and even if they did it could not be traced back to me. Trust me on that.

Calistodwt
February 22nd, 2012, 01:16 AM
Issues of performance should be handled by the employees supervisor. If you are not his supervisor then its not your responsibility. The supervisor cannot delegate responsibility and if he is trying to do that then he is a very poor supervisor. I would not like to work under a supervisor who could not take the time to tell me if I am performing poorly or well. Annual appraisals are official company procedures to discuss with each employee his / her performance but performance should be discussed / monitored throughout the year at regular intervals by the supervisor.

wolverine1981
February 23rd, 2012, 03:04 AM
Being a night shift lead for my previous employer I would start it off that the report is being made in request by mr big. with a breif outline of the employees position and expected duties time in the position and all the standard stuff. Just keep it simple and to the point no opnions. If the employee is either on the phone or taking to long on repairs the employee should have a verbal and written warning also signed by the boss and employee.
Part of my job was to assign duties by work order. In it I would include what was to be done, and the expected start and finish times. after the job was completed the tech would add his finish time and comments then complete his end. Then I would review the work orders and if any problems add my comments ( problem, delayed start or finish reasons...) and close it out. If rework had to be done I opened that work order and add more comments (reason for rework) then closed out for good.

In our system I was able to graph the amount of work orders, reworks. And print all the work orders# and comments for a tech. It was several pages long but it was documented facts most in there own words and logon.

In several years I was only asked to do this twice and both times the employee was demoted and quit after a few days.

My point is is if you only deal with documented facts you should have no problems.


Hope This Helps
Tom

iant
February 23rd, 2012, 04:54 AM
Unless you have been trained in supervisory management - do not touch this.
It is a huge can of worms.
In performance management - you need to find out the WHY's
As this is often personal - the phone calls etc.
Any of us who program need a clear mind.
If you have huge personal issues it is almost impossible.

I would tell your boss you are not qualified in Psychology.

At the end of the day - your work mate has some real issues.
Could be any number of reasons - formal training will help you address this correctly.
Without knowing, he may need serious help.

uptown47
February 23rd, 2012, 10:58 AM
I wouldn't worry about him reading this. You haven't mentioned him by name and, from what I can see, you haven't mentioned the name of the company??

I would certainly take the advice of trying to avoid this. As Ian has said, this guy might have the world on his shoulders now and might just be managing to keep it all together enough to put in a 30% performance at work.

Perhaps a 'coaching conversation' would be a good way to initiate something more formal. Outlining what is expected from him and areas that he could work on improving. Then you (or your boss ideally) has given him a forum in order to explain his behaviour (i.e. he's on the phone a lot because his folks are in hospital or his kids getting into trouble at school etc etc).

You then have a good foundation to give him the heave-ho if he doesn't perform AND hasn't got a satisfactory reason for his performance.

The Plc Kid
February 23rd, 2012, 09:28 PM
If he has the world on his shoulders thenhe has had for the last 3 years. Same behavior since he has been here on other shifts and other departments. They company has tried to work with him to improve far and beyond what a company normally would and should.

They have just had enough. I can't say that I blame them because the workforce feels the same way.

iant
February 24th, 2012, 01:09 AM
If he has the world on his shoulders thenhe has had for the last 3 years. Same behavior since he has been here on other shifts and other departments. They company has tried to work with him to improve far and beyond what a company normally would and should.

They have just had enough. I can't say that I blame them because the workforce feels the same way.
Time to let him go -
But again it is not your responsibility

Calistodwt
February 24th, 2012, 01:17 AM
I reckon that it is irrelevant that your boss is kind of new? If he can't handle this task then it begs the question how did he get the job in the first place? His judgement can't be very good either because he gave the task to you and you dont seem to be able to handle it either. So maybe you should have been honest with your boss up front and told him that you could not do it either or would that then have classified you as a poor performer as well?
If you have sufficiently documented history of poor performance then the task should be easy for either you or your boss. The facts should then be written up in a report and then he could be fired via the appropriate channels in you company.
One of my tasks as lead engineer for the last 20 years has been to do performance ratings, disciplinary sessions and reviews of the people reporting to me and I have never had the need to go to the internet and ask how I could do such tasks.

RussB
February 24th, 2012, 10:00 AM
I have never had the need to go to the internet and ask how I could do such tasks.
If you had, I am sure that you too would have gotten more bad advice than good advice.

There are leaders, there are followers, everyone needs to know where they are to make a smooth work environment. Then there are pushers, hopefully no one works for one of these.

Ned_Flanders
February 24th, 2012, 01:02 PM
If you had, I am sure that you too would have gotten more bad advice than good advice.

There are leaders, there are followers, everyone needs to know where they are to make a smooth work environment. Then there are pushers, hopefully no one works for one of these.

A little joke here? Don't go down that road!

The Plc Kid
February 24th, 2012, 09:03 PM
I reckon that it is irrelevant that your boss is kind of new? If he can't handle this task then it begs the question how did he get the job in the first place? His judgement can't be very good either because he gave the task to you and you dont seem to be able to handle it either. So maybe you should have been honest with your boss up front and told him that you could not do it either or would that then have classified you as a poor performer as well?
If you have sufficiently documented history of poor performance then the task should be easy for either you or your boss. The facts should then be written up in a report and then he could be fired via the appropriate channels in you company.
One of my tasks as lead engineer for the last 20 years has been to do performance ratings, disciplinary sessions and reviews of the people reporting to me and I have never had the need to go to the internet and ask how I could do such tasks.

It is just a question. I have never done this before so you have to learn from somewhere. Nice to see that you were born already knowing how to do these things.

Thanks for your helpful input.

leitmotif
February 25th, 2012, 02:11 AM
It is just a question. I have never done this before so you have to learn from somewhere. Nice to see that you were born already knowing how to do these things.

Thanks for your helpful input.

Kid

you need to remember he learned back in the days of dinosaurs - books and paper - why I will bet he even had to go to supervisor training ie a sit down class session. Heck he was out there working before you were born - talk about ancient!!!

I even remember and did math on a slip stick. NOW THAT IS OLD

Dan Bentler

iant
February 25th, 2012, 02:51 AM
I was taught on a slide rule LOL ---

I have my old mans one also.
A cylindrical drum type 4~5 decimal place type.

Give me that calculator

leitmotif
February 25th, 2012, 11:33 AM
Oh yes I much prefer a calculator. However the very valuable lesson they beat into my head was to be able to estimate your final number. Invaluable whether slipstick, calculator, computer.

Dan

iant
February 25th, 2012, 12:04 PM
Yep - I Agree Dan,
I find it funny talking to the young bloke, (now 20) when he was at school.
trying to explain that 378 x 3 will be greater than 1000.

The other thing I find funny is looking around the desktop for the calculator - searching high and low - asking workmates if they have it.

Then remembering the calculator program on the notebook I was using.

Calistodwt
February 26th, 2012, 03:39 AM
Yes I did maths on a slide rule and even Log tables too

iant
February 26th, 2012, 04:39 AM
I still use fingers, Toes and --- I can count to 21

leitmotif
February 26th, 2012, 09:00 AM
Yes I did maths on a slide rule and even Log tables too

Log tables ?? Arent those for how many 2 x 4 you can get out of a log?

Yeah did those in high school - hated em - what a PITA - but at the time (dinosaurs were still hatching from eggs) it was about as good as it got - unless you went hi tech and did em o a slip stick.

Dan Bentler

Calistodwt
February 26th, 2012, 09:06 AM
Why use a "slip stick" to do logs? The slide rule scales are already logarithmic and therfore negate the requirement.

leitmotif
February 26th, 2012, 09:34 AM
Why use a "slip stick" to do logs? The slide rule scales are already logarithmic and therfore negate the requirement.

Obviously I need a refresher

Dan Bentler

Clay B.
February 26th, 2012, 12:21 PM
Remeber in school having to ask permission to use a slide rule instead of the lookup tables in the back of our math book. The previous owner of my math book decided the lookup tables needed to be colored so reading numbers (almost impossible to begin with) where impossible. I still have that slide rule. My father was the one who got it for me. I showed it to my kids a few years ago and got some pretty confused looks. I really liked the look of bewilderment when we were at the Smithsonian in DC and I explained that engineers who built the rockets used those same slide rules to figure out how to make the rockets work.

IMHO. PLCKid is right in asking questions before going off half cocked. When it comes to personal management you can get into a real mess real fast. Oh and as far as using the internet. If it had existed when I started you can bet I would have used it.

Dizzyfingers
February 26th, 2012, 10:14 PM
I'm not sure on the labour laws in GA. What I do know is that there MUST be a paper and meeting trail that has dialogued and recorded the deficiencies of his work and included the consequences of what would happen if expectations were not met by the worker. This has nothing to do with you but is the accountability of your boss and HR. Without all the proper documentation your company could be setting itself up for a wrongfull termination claim by the worker. When it comes to human rights, or illegal conduct it's fairly straight forward. Without the company doing due-dilegence, prepare for the worse...