PLC Review

Hello everyone,

Just want to get some feedback on what is being used out there in terms of the current selection of PLC's. Our organization is doing a review on the controllers we are using. We have a mixed bag of stuff so things are always interesting here...

Lately we have been using the Allen Bradley Control Logix platform. Software registration was a nightmare for us. Plus our floor technicians are easily confused on the different types of software.. RSLogix 5000, RSLogix 500, Factory Talk ME...etc...

We used to use Automation Direct. This was easy to install and register software. Just the programming was not easy for our techs as you have to get used to the default BCD Hex values.

We have some GE and Toshiba PLC's too. They have been ok. But sourcing parts were a problem in the past.

Just wondering what is a good PLC platform in today's technology. Also what would be your top 5 PLC's

That's sort of like asking "What food tastes best?". It all come down to personal preference. As you already know, each brand has their pros and cons. You might want to create a poll (we still have the poll option here, right?).

I have to program a variety of brands due to customer preference. I try to stick to 'generic' instructions, so I can re-use code on different brands. I avoid using brand specific instructions for this reason. For example, if I need an off-delay timer in RSLogix, I WON'T use a TOF. I will use my standard off-delay that works on every brand.

My personal choice is A-D, mainly because that's the brand I know the best. A-B is a close second, as long as it's not ControlLogix. I struggle with CLX. I'm not a 'tag-based' fan (yet). Mitsubishi isn't bad, but the software is clunky IMO. I've programmed my share of GE, Siemens, and many others over the years, but only because that's what the customer asked for.



-Eric

If you are truly reassessing your current controllers, you will need to first assess your needs. Are the controllers doing what you need them to do?

You mentioned confusion with different software packages from one manufacturer. How important is it to have one package for all your applications? Is it possible, given the many different controllers already installed? Is it possible for one platform to meet all your needs?

If you plan to standardize on one controller manufacturer, family or platform, know what you needs are in addition to what is out there. Here is a link that offers comparison information for many of the major brands of PLCs.

http://plccompare.com/

The benefits of one platform are:

1. One software package
2. Streamlined inventory of spare parts
3. Simplification of maintenance

Even if the controller is overkill for an application, the benefits listed above will far outweigh the additional component cost.

Hope this helps.

For PLC's, Control/CompactLogix all the way. There is no reason any longer to even consider the PLC5 or SLC500 platform, though I suppose you might keep Logix500 around just for MicroLogix bricks. Even there, I usually change them out for CompactLogix. The Logix programming software is excellent, and registering it is only a hassle once thanks to their new and idiotic activation scheme.

For HMI's, run, don't walk, in fact, take a spaceship away from anything made by AB/Rockwell. FTView in all of its forms are horribly expensive pieces of junk that only functions in fits and starts, and has fewer capabilities of WonderWare of 10+ years ago (PC Platform), and just about any OI Panel out there today (RedLion G3 being my current favorite).

Have a look at Omron - CX-Programmer is excellent - like eveything else once you get used to it.
CX-One is the whole programming package and it is inexpensive - it also does the screens, drives, motion, temperature controllers and everything else including networking, Profibus, Device Net, CompoNet, Ethernet IP.
In Ozz updates are free on the web and you only have to pay for an upgrade when there is a major one. No annual fees - phone help from Omron in Ozz is also free.
Ozz price for the whole software package is about $2,500.00 and major upgrades (every 12-24 months) is about $750.00. Usually only when a new PLC comes along.
The current PLC range is CP1 (shoe box), CJ2 (rackless) and CS1 (rack). All these PLCs have basically the same instruction set with a few exceptions where high speed I/O are available in the selected PLC and a few other variants.
I guess AB would be my next choice but do not like the SLC software and have not tried Control/Compact Logix - cannot afford them.
Omron have released a new PLC that is based on the Intel Atom processor - it is a machine control PLC and utilses EtherCat for motion control applications - really fast. This new device is not supported by CX-One but ustilses a new set of software known as Sysmac Studio. I have not seen it or used it as I do not do that type of machine control but CX-One covers all the others. It even has support for some really old PLCs in one form or another. For the really old ones it is only upload and convert the program to a new PLC but it still fully supports the C200 for example and that PLC was early nineties.

i personally would take a different spin on things

i would asses which units are more reliable. Now in my honest option, SIEMENS is the more reliable units. (but i prefer to program AB) i think all people can be taught how to program different units with a bit of training and some teach boards.

Just some observations here.

Gman22 said:

Plus our floor technicians are easily confused on the different types of software.. RSLogix 5000, RSLogix 500, Factory Talk ME...etc...

Just the programming was not easy for our techs as you have to get used to the default BCD Hex values.

Click to expand...

While it may be beyond the scope of what you were tasked to do, but I would look closely at these two comments. As I see it you either have a problem with the technicians or with their training (either they can't learn or they are taught properly).

It's funny how companies will spend $200K on a new system but flinch at spending to $2K to send a tech to a class to learn it.

This is an internal problem that needs to be addressed regardless of PLC choice. You can hire/train competent technicians; you can't fix a vendors supply chain.

Eric Nelson said:

That's sort of like asking "What food tastes best?"...

Click to expand...

That's too easy.
Mexican

Eric Nelson said:

Mitsubishi isn't bad, but the software is clunky IMO.


-Eric

Click to expand...

Eric,

Have you had a chance to use the newest software platform from Mitsubishi? The IQ works suite is quite user friendly IMO. The entire package costs around 1500.00 and it includes software for the PLC, HMI, Motion, Robotics, and includes a navigator program to design your entire system with. One piece of software to program all the current platforms of PLC's also.

-Dave

One of the great ideas on this site was the user-written PLC reviews. Unfortunately it has failed, and I think it was due to some glitches that caused the reviews to be deleted. I wrote a couple of the reviews that disappeared.

Stephen Luft said:

If you are truly reassessing your current controllers, you will need to first assess your needs. Are the controllers doing what you need them to do?

You mentioned confusion with different software packages from one manufacturer. How important is it to have one package for all your applications? Is it possible, given the many different controllers already installed? Is it possible for one platform to meet all your needs?

If you plan to standardize on one controller manufacturer, family or platform, know what you needs are in addition to what is out there. Here is a link that offers comparison information for many of the major brands of PLCs.

http://plccompare.com/

The benefits of one platform are:

1. One software package
2. Streamlined inventory of spare parts
3. Simplification of maintenance

Even if the controller is overkill for an application, the benefits listed above will far outweigh the additional component cost.

Hope this helps.

Click to expand...

Interesting that the Website doesn't include the Honeywell HC900 which in my opinion is the best PAC (they like the term Hybrid Controller) on the market.

Yep - it's just my opinion, but I value my opinion (and you should too)

Jim

Funny thing with Honeywell - customers are leaving them in droves in Ozz due to high prices and poor performance - that includes their BMS systems, PLCs (PAC is just a fancy name for a PLC with some guts and functionality), all sorts of re-badged hardware that is 3 times the price of the original manufacturer.
Mention was also made about reliability - Omron warrants ALL products they sell in Ozz for 2 years - no one else does that.
I have not had an Omron PLC fail in over 10 years now - except where some idiot wired a 24VDC input with 240VAC and blew the input up - it did not affect the other inputs on the card though - got lucky. The only other problem I have had was when someone wired an output card with a positive common and it was a negative common transistor output card. Neither were the fault of the PLC though.
The great thing, in this case, is the commonality of the software for all models going back to the early nineties - same software for all!

As has already been said, it's horses for courses really. I prefer Siemens because I am more familiar with them. However, I had a dabble with Omron and they are very very good value. The site I work at is almost exclusively Siemens but, if I had to replace everything, then I would probably send myself on an Omron course and go with Omron.

I just feel they are much better value for money. Their support is genuinely helpful (all Siemens support do is ask you what type of hardware / lead / software you are using and if any of those things isn't the very latest then they cease help until you upgrade - an underhand way of shipping more leads / software upgrades etc).

I was also extremely shocked to read about the corruption charges that Siemens have faced in the past (just google Siemens corruption). I think that from a moral standpoint I would feel uncomfortable kitting an entire factory out with them.

I've also used Allen Bradley and they were quite good too.

But... on the whole, despite the fact that I am much more familiar with Siemens, my choice would be Omron.

;-))

I would write reviews for Siemens S7-300, Siemens S7-400, Siemens IM151-8, Siemens HMI panels, AB SLC500 (*), AB PLC5 (*), and classic AB PanelViews (*) - if I can be sure that they dont get deleted again.

*: I know, they are legacy now, but still in use many places.

Response to Jim

Jim,

The web site is fairly new (about a year) and adds content on a regular basis, therefore is not fully comprehensive or complete. If you have a controller that you would like added, you can comment through the link below and they will do their due diligence.

http://plccompare.com/about/