Training for maintenance techs?

A slightly off topic question but I think my boss is worried that I know too much about the control systems in our plant and nobody else anything!!

A couple of years ago he sent 3 maintenance electricians/technicians on a Siemens S7 basic programming course.

Because they have not touched it since he is proposing to send them again!!

I think he is wasting his money because they have not shown any interest since. My introduction to S7 was borrowing some one elses notes 11 years ago and use some common sense.

What does anyone else think? Should I keep quiet and let him spend the money of perhaps some one can suggest what level they should be expected to be capable of doing?

Curious about Ron's classes:
http://www.ronbeaufort.com/boot_camp_experience.htm

To bad there is no such thing in Europe for our maint guys.

Because they have not touched it since he is proposing to send them again!!

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If they haven't touched because of lack of interest on their part, then sending them again is unlikely to spark any interest.

If they haven't touched it because of lack of opportunity, then you will need to provide them with an opportunity to use what they learn. Otherwise they'll forget everything they pick up at the training within a couple of months.

my situation is totally different,

I wanna update some controllogix and servo drive programming by rslogix courses from Rockwell, but, the company management said the courses are so pricy and costly, sigh! I wish lz's boss were my boss.

Steve Bailey said:

If they haven't touched because of lack of interest on their part, then sending them again is unlikely to spark any interest.

If they haven't touched it because of lack of opportunity, then you will need to provide them with an opportunity to use what they learn. Otherwise they'll forget everything they pick up at the training within a couple of months.

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Steve Bailey said:

If they haven't touched because of lack of interest on their part, then sending them again is unlikely to spark any interest.

If they haven't touched it because of lack of opportunity, then you will need to provide them with an opportunity to use what they learn. Otherwise they'll forget everything they pick up at the training within a couple of months.

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It's probably a little of both but I am also concerned that we are bordering on the "Dangerous novices programming plc's" thread.

@ Markie,
I think you should tell the boss to give you that money as higher wages. That would be the money he was going to spend on the others. He could send you to advanced training instead, to keep you interested in staying. That should be cheaper for the company than replacing you.

Training

Just remember guys, no one is born a PLC programmer !! Also we all know from our own experience that 'some' manuals do not teach they confuse and some of us need to be taught. Traning in this country is Tax Deductible so any employer that wants to maintain his assets up time high and his employees interested should do without a black German car and spend the coin on training that is Tax Deduction !!

I learned to ride a bicycle uhhhh several decades ago. I would be somewhat rusty riding one today.

Same goes for PLCs and lots of other things. Just because they went to a class does not mean they were taught a lot nor did they absorba a lot.

I can see them a bit afraid to touch anything - what happens if they screw it up?

One method of learning is by mistake - I think we all know about this.

What I think may help your situation is give them a PLC that they can practice on and screw up - in the shop - where it will not damage anything AND not interfere with PRODUCTION.

Dan Bentler

Our techs were given training inhouse, then sent to Siemens' training courses. So far only 1 person has kept using what he was taught. And then only part of it. He also had interest prior to the trainings.

All the others, some 10-14, prefer calling me or my colleague for the simplist things. Whether I'm at home, sleeping, in the shower, taking a dump, at a party, they'll call for the simplest things. Usually insisting the program has changed and I need to look at it. Telling them off, politely, or trying to guide them to look for themselves, giving them other possible causes for the issue, only results in being called into your bosses office the followng morning for a chat about your "Non helpful attitude".


So yeah, tell ur boss to give you the money, either as pay or additional training, since it's wasted money on peeps without interest.

Your original question was should you get involved with your bosses decisions.

No.

They don't want to hear opposing view points, ever.

I might remind the boss that these other people have been to training and that we should all share the call ins, since we are all trained up now.

The others will love helping you out here.

And I am sure everyone will provide the same level of support.

What does anyone else think?

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Markie, Don't go against your boss, but figure out how to use the situation so that everyone gains something. I bet that the reason these guys don't use PLCS is that they did not learn much the first time around, for whatever reason.

I would suggest to your boss that "Yes, that's a good idea, and I could use a refresher course myself, and maybe if I were there, I could help make sure they attended the classes and stayed awake and paid attention".

Go with these 3 morons, and make sure they don't party all night and sleep through the classes. Learn all you can, make contacts, pick up new literature, talk to the instructors. Win-win-win.

You know your boss better than us. Some will be resentful of your meddling, the good ones will at least listen to you. I would express my concerns, but do choose your words wisely.

We all know the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over again and expecting different results. Sending them to the same class isn't going to get different results. Different class, maybe different results, but I doubt it.

It really comes down to the individuals, do they want to learn or are they only interested in picking up their next paycheck. If they don't want to learn there isn't anything you or your boss can do short of replacing them.

It could also be, as mentioned earlier, that they haven't been given the opportunity or been required to deal with the PLCs. If the typical response is: "Hey get Markie, the PLC is on the fritz." They can't practice their skills and they will lose them. They need to be involved, even if people consider the PLCs your area of expertise. You need to try and include them or better yet make them do it while you simply observe. You should become the trainer because you will know much more about your system then any class they could attend.

As for what level they should be able to handle, I would never expect a maintenance technician to write or modify a PLC program. They should be able to read a PLC program and determine if the I/O is doing what the program requests. The program should already be tested and running before hitting the factory floor. If no one changes it, their shouldn't be any reason to 'fix' it.

As others have said, you can also use this opportunity to make sure that since you have a broader skill set and are doing training as well, this needs to be reflected in your remuneration. Your boss does want to keep the guy who knows about the system happy, doesn't he?

Lancie1 said:

Markie, Don't go against your boss, but figure out how to use the situation so that everyone gains something. I bet that the reason these guys don't use PLCS is that they did not learn much the first time around, for whatever reason.

I would suggest to your boss that "Yes, that's a good idea, and I could use a refresher course myself, and maybe if I were there, I could help make sure they attended the classes and stayed awake and paid attention".

Go with these 3 morons, and make sure they don't party all night and sleep through the classes. Learn all you can, make contacts, pick up new literature, talk to the instructors. Win-win-win.

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Thanks everyone for some great feedback.

At the risk of my boss joining the site and checking up on me this is what's happening! I DID talk to the course instructor and advise my boss the basic course - which lasts 5 days - was at the right level and 5 techs are attending - including 2 that have been somewhere else before.

Perhaps I am slightly reluctant because the programming and software is easy to manage at the moment. No body downloads older versions of programs or applies software forces to "Get it going again".

Judging by the replies I will be lucky if 2 of the 5 actually put anything into practice afterwards but I can hope.

For the record, my own knowledge comes from working in technical positions for the last 30 years and my introduction to plc's was to be handed a Mitsubishi brick and "Calculator" style programmer and trying to program a delay off circuit. So i do appreciate we all need to start somewhere!!

Thanks again, Mark

What is going to happen at that company if you get run over by a bus tonight?

gas said:

What is going to happen at that company if you get run over by a bus tonight?

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They will put an ad online and call a recruiter and continue as they did before you.

Same thing you would do if the company disappeared one day.