Rockwell Training Questions

We have at our facility a system that uses a Micrologix 1200, and a Panel View 300. I have the free RSLogix software along with the emulator, and the RSLinx utility. I have been puttering along with the ladder side of it, though I know the free RSLogix won't work on the 1200 unit, I assume it is pretty similar. I think I can get myself up to speed on that side of it after a while. Where can a guy go for Panel Builder 32 learning resources? I have done a couple small projects here using the Automation Direct CLICKs and Micro HMI's but see us getting to the point where going directly into the AB PLC/HMI will make sense. I did a little research on what it would cost to get up and running with the full blown RSLogix and Panel Builder 32, and I am guesstimating about $1600, is that near enough?

I just used Panel Builder 32 for the first time a few weeks ago, and I found it rather easy to use. Seems pretty close to Siemens panel software and Factory talk View Studio

Be aware that all Panelview Standard models will be obsolete at the end of the year.

http://www.ab.com/silver/eoi/2711panelview.html

I would not invest too heavily in them. At our facility, we will be switching away from A/B HMI as they fail and we have already started to use Red Lion HMIs for new projects.

+1 on what Okie said, with 2 caveats:
1) I don't really care for the way they mount to the panel. They have threaded studs attached to the back of the bezel that need matching holes drilled in the enclosure. I prefer the clamp method since it's easier to install. This isn't a show-stopper, just an inconvenience.

2) Red Lion HMIs don't talk DH+. This is not an issue with your MicroLogix systems, but we have several PV+ and TCP HMIs on DH+ that feel like ticking time bombs. So far, we've found 3 that do:
EZ-Touch
TCP (now proface I think)
Uticor
The EZ-touch isn't the easiest to code, but it isn't too bad. I've only dealt with one of them and it wasn't in service long before the plant shut down, so I can't give you any insight on how robust it is.

The old TCP isn't too bad to program, but also isn't my favorite. We have a bunch here that have been in service for a fairly long time. I don't know if the new Proface models do DH+ or not. If not, the old TCP is NOT a really good option since they're long out of production.

I haven't worked personally with the Uticor HMI, but another guy in the plant has done 2 and is quite happy with them. One really neat feature is that they allow online edits like a PLC, where you can change a push button (for example) and have it update immediately without having to shut down the runtime and download the entire project.

OkiePC said:

Be aware that all Panelview Standard models will be obsolete at the end of the year.

http://www.ab.com/silver/eoi/2711panelview.html

I would not invest too heavily in them. At our facility, we will be switching away from A/B HMI as they fail and we have already started to use Red Lion HMIs for new projects.

Click to expand...

I didn't know this, that's why my Rep was trying to get me to switch over to Panelview Plus.
I would go with Red Lion before using PanelView Plus, mainly because I don't want to pay extra for the software.

If you are required to stay with Allen Bradley, (some companies demand it) I would check out the PanelView Component C400 (AB 2711C-T4T)
You don't have to purchase the software which is nice.
Of course, you will need to completely rewrite the application.

It all depends on how complex your existing system is.

If you do buy the Panelbuilder 32, I think that you will find the programming very easy.

So can anybody recommend an online training program for Panel Builder? The PLC and HMI control a water purification system. RO/DI storage and distribution as well. I don't want to rebuild the whole thing, even if I could. Adding some extra functionality and controls would be as far as I would go.

I really don't think you're going to find an active training program for PanelBuilder32 software. The product has been around for literally decades and they're stopping production of the "Standard" models that are programmed with PanelBuilder32 this summer.

There's a good User Manual for the PanelView Standard and many of the longtime Forum members here are extremely familiar with PanelBuilder32 if you get stuck on a specific item.

You do need to buy RSLogix 500 Micro, which will program all the MicroLogix controllers. You don't need even the Starter or Professional versions because those add modular SLC-500 controller support.

But I'd bet a box of donuts that your local A-B distributor would give you a copy of PanelBuilder32 in trade for the opportunity to talk for an hour about your electrical and automation supply needs.

joseph_e2 said:

+1 on what Okie said, with 2 caveats:
1) I don't really care for the way they mount to the panel. They have threaded studs attached to the back of the bezel that need matching holes drilled in the enclosure. I prefer the clamp method since it's easier to install. This isn't a show-stopper, just an inconvenience.

Click to expand...

The PV+600 is extremely easy to replace with the little plastic hold down levers, and we know the reason. In our wash down facility, those clamps lead to a very high failure rate. The gaskets and studs on the G3s don't leak.

Thanks Ken, that is the info I was looking for. My local Rockwell automation distributor is a couple towns over. I think I will give them a call. I've seen used MicroLogix 1000 and 1100 and Panel Views on ebay reasonably cheap. I might try to get the boss to spring for a setup for prototyping. After she hears what the programming software costs she might not go for it though.

deanfran said:

So can anybody recommend an online training program for Panel Builder? The PLC and HMI control a water purification system. RO/DI storage and distribution as well. I don't want to rebuild the whole thing, even if I could. Adding some extra functionality and controls would be as far as I would go.

Click to expand...

Check with these guys

http://www.automationtraining.ca/panelview.asp

OkiePC said:

The PV+600 is extremely easy to replace with the little plastic hold down levers, and we know the reason. In our wash down facility, those clamps lead to a very high failure rate. The gaskets and studs on the G3s don't leak.

Click to expand...

I had thought of that. We're in a dirty industrial environment, but one that doesn't require wash down, so I hadn't seen that particular failure. As I said, it's an inconvenience during installation, though far less of an inconvenience than programming a PV+.

Most of the failures we've seen involve communication glitches (mostly TCP) and hammers. Oh, and last year my first project here was to replace an old CRT PV (using PDS) because it was too faded to read conveniently.

Back to the OP's original question: I think Ken covered it pretty well. I'll add that PanelBuilder32 is not really that difficult to use, especially if you've had any experience at all building GUIs. Just get in there and poke around a bit. The only reason I can see for doing so, though, is to support existing installed base.

joseph_e2 said:

Most of the failures we've seen involve communication glitches (mostly TCP) and hammers. Oh, and last year my first project here was to replace an old CRT PV (using PDS) because it was too faded to read conveniently.

Back to the OP's original question: I think Ken covered it pretty well. I'll add that PanelBuilder32 is not really that difficult to use, especially if you've had any experience at all building GUIs. Just get in there and poke around a bit. The only reason I can see for doing so, though, is to support existing installed base.

Click to expand...

I agree. Our problems with touchscreens is certainly due to abuse on occasion, but the environment is very abusive at my place in certain locations. We also have a LOTO policy that costs us a full minute or more of up-time every time we make a tooling adjustment on patty formers, which makes the PV+ unappealing when compared against 7 second boot times. We had 16 failures in 7 months in 2009-2010, on 9 installations of the Panelview plus 600 in a seismic swing arm pendant with top conduit entry, wet frozen meat splattering them all day, hot steamy water spraying them down for few minutes followed by 4 hour steam bath every night. then a chlorine or other sanitizer rinse. My G310 has survived about 3 months or so now, and it stays dry, not only due to the lack of leveraged plastic mounting trinkets, but due to a higher quality installation made possible by my accurate center punch and two hours, one-time-investment drilling and jig-sawing (one hour of that labor was spent to find sharp bits).

Our PV+ 700 are much more reliable. I have several in similar conditions less the vibration, and they often last for years only occasionally suffering from lock ups, but all in all, good stuff hardware wise, and rarely power cycled. We will probably continue to use the PV(6) 700+ and focus on getting rid of standard models on DH+ and DH485 first.