Unitronics experiences - good - bad

I have a customer who wants me to use Unitronics PLCs with colour touch screens because they are cheap.

I have no experience with them and I was wondering if any of you have had good/bad experiences with them particularly with respect to reliability , repair and service.

Had a look at the software and the tools are not particularly good but this is pretty normal with free software.

The last experience I had with Israeli electronics was with generator controllers and they were, quite frankly, terrible. Had to replace them with Woodward controllers at the end of the day to get some reliability and repeatability in the system. They failed regularly and were full of bugs. Have shied away from Israeli stuff ever since.

We utilize Unitronics quite a bit. From a hardware standpoint it is actually pretty decent, but you do need be wary of good electrical practices regarding shielding, EMI, etc. Be careful of the conversion times of some of the analog modules, some of them are quite long and may not be suitable for fast processes.

I have read enough of your posts to know you will hate the software. It is very "mouse-centric" and the ladder logic connections are actually drawn ala ACAD. But they do actually have a very good instruction set and they pack a lot of capability in a very small package. They have one of the best price/performance ratios I have seen.

They have a pretty decent support staff and a dedicated forum that they respond to better than many others.

In the forseeable future they will actually be releasing a complete new line of product and software that will be much nicer and the development software will be much easier to use.

Thanks for the comments, I appreciate them. Yes, I dislike the software - very tedious. Fortunately not much in the job and will be repetetive - a standard product so to speak.

Hi,
Once you start using Unitronics, it starts growing on you and you realise its potential by way of the software ease. You start to think of every project in terms of Unitronics. You start to discount other brands bcos of the ease of programming... till you use Unitronics on a project that desires a great level of precision and the HARDWARE lets you down, down, down.
Then you run to the forum & put up your query. The Unitronics staff will wake up from their slumber, after the project has gone into limbo. The others around will ask questions which will make you look stupid & yet you will not receive any solution to your query.
I would advise that before using Unitronics pl confirm that the specs of the hardware ( analog & High speed Counters) are compatible with your project.

Ron

Analogues and high speed counters are not a real issue. There will be some analogues but they will be slow pressure changes with differential so not really a problem - a second or 2 response would not matter.
My main issue was how reliable they are.
The software is a PITA to be honest but I will only have to do it once as the project will become a standard system and will only ever need to have a few set points changed.
If I was doing what I normally do I would not use them due to the pathetic, mouse-centric software - too slow and too painful.
I program by bit and channel numbers on the keyboard - in other words I use keyboard short cuts. Symbol programming and auto allocation are also a PITA as they slow me down. For the same reason I do not use function blocks.
Damian reads me perfectly - everything has to happen NOW!!
I recently went to a site where we were doing 3 generators - each with it's own PLC. Flew in in the morning, went to site induction, got to the PLCs at 10.30AM. Had only typed in the I/O - no program written.
By midday I had communications going in 3 PLCs to the generator controllers, fuel tank monitors, Woodward generator controllers, BMS system - a total of 12 communications loops all, running.
By 6PM I had all the alarm routines written for the 3 PLCs, the colour touch screens programmed and then went and had dinner.
Next morning I got into the control program and by midday we had all 3 generators running and all values from the generator controllers, fuel tank gauges and Woodward controllers reading on the touch screens. By 5PM we had all circuit breaker controls programmed and commissioned and all alarm routines commissioned for the 3 generators and I was on my way to the airport to fly back home.
There are very few PLCs and sets of software about that would allow me top do all that in 2 days - and I only had to stay in a hotel for 1 night - marvellous.
The huge advantages of programming by keyboard with really good, fast software and not having to fiddle about with a ruddy mouse!!!

2rlp said:

Hi,
Once you start using Unitronics, it starts growing on you and you realise its potential by way of the software ease. You start to think of every project in terms of Unitronics. You start to discount other brands bcos of the ease of programming... till you use Unitronics on a project that desires a great level of precision and the HARDWARE lets you down, down, down.
Then you run to the forum & put up your query. The Unitronics staff will wake up from their slumber, after the project has gone into limbo. The others around will ask questions which will make you look stupid & yet you will not receive any solution to your query.
I would advise that before using Unitronics pl confirm that the specs of the hardware ( analog & High speed Counters) are compatible with your project.

Ron

Click to expand...

Ron, Would you care to share some specifics?

I'm "mouse man" and feel good enough with VisiLogic. But also I'm a person, who programs with head, and not with fingers. I'm thinking few moments "How I can make it in most clever way" when I have a new topic. Then, I write it in 5 rungs than "standard" 50. VisiLogic is perfect (!), as it has practically unlimited number of tools to let you program in a clever way. And in this case, the speed of tying becomes less relevant.
BTW - there are a lot of shortcuts - predefined or user defined. With them, one can program practically without mouse.
About hardware - it's always good idea to review tghe specs. If needed, contact thheir support team for more info...

EM44 said:

I'm "mouse man" and feel good enough with VisiLogic. But also I'm a person, who programs with head, and not with fingers. I'm thinking few moments "How I can make it in most clever way" when I have a new topic. Then, I write it in 5 rungs than "standard" 50. VisiLogic is perfect (!), as it has practically unlimited number of tools to let you program in a clever way. And in this case, the speed of tying becomes less relevant.
BTW - there are a lot of shortcuts - predefined or user defined. With them, one can program practically without mouse.
About hardware - it's always good idea to review tghe specs. If needed, contact thheir support team for more info...

Click to expand...

Emil,

First, you run the risk of insinuating that the real problem is that your customers are not clever enough to use this software. That perhaps we should be entering our IQ upon registering so that Visilogic can can determine if we are sufficiently smart enough to use it.

Many of us rarely just start right in typing code. I generally spend many hours laying out my programs and strategy prior to ever opening the software. Once I am ready to start the actual process of entering the code into the software the THINKING part of the job has already been done, and it is extremely annoying when the software slows you down from accomplishing this otherwise boring procedure.

Secondly, many of our customers do not appreciate cleverness in their programs. This is because in many cases an electrician or low level technician will be in charge of maintaining the software and debugging it once the system is commissioned. Those of us who don't want to get calls at 2am to explain how our code works actually go out of our way to make sure the code is as simple and "unclever" as we can get it.

Thirdly, on large jobs, clever or not, it can take a long time to enter code. Time is money. It is as simple as that. So even if you do figure out how to get 50 rungs worth of logic into 5, your still wasting time entering those 5 rungs. Wasted time is wasted time regardless. The whole point of software is to make us more efficient at our jobs.

I would love to hear about the shortcuts you mention that allow me to program practically without a mouse. I have been using Visilogic steadily for several years now and have been unsuccessful at figuring this out despite a lot of effort. All I am aware of is 4 user defined hotkeys that actually cause the element to appear at the mouse tip, so you still have to click it to the ladder. Hitting Alt-L and selecting thereoff does same thing, just sticks it on your mouse tip. What good is selecting function with the keyoboard when it forces you to place them all with the mouse? Then you still have to connect them all with lines ala 2D Cad.

I agree that the software is very feature rich and very powerful when considering it is free and comparing it to similar products. Unfortunately the ability to enter ladder code efficiently is not one of it's strengths.

We use alot of the Unitronics PLCs. Hardware wise I find they get the job done. Software is a bit clunky. I tend to use shortcut keys. But if like me you are building the same thing over and over again it does have benefits. Also while the software is not the best for programmers it is easy to walk someone over the phone how to connect and troubleshoot.

I find that small jobs ( 100 I/0 or less and no motion control) the Unitronics holds it own very well. Especially from a cost perspective.

My only major gripe with the Vision line is that you can not overlay dynamic objects on the screens. This can be a real PITA.

Also the design of the Unitronics gives them a real small panel footprint and since panel space is money this helps as well.

I want to apologize to Damian and the other participants, who feel offended by my post! I'm really sorry! I didn't think for a second that my post can hurt someone! I just wanted to point why I personally like Unitronics PLC...
I hope that soon Unitronics will issue new series of controllers and relevant software and they will have not the disadvantages you pointed, keeping the advantages that keep many people working with these PLC.

I'm "mouse man" and feel good enough with VisiLogic.

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Too slow and I do not want to get RSI - good for factory fiddlers not system integrators like me who write software very quickly - lots of experience.

But also I'm a person, who programs with head, and not with fingers. I'm thinking few moments "How I can make it in most clever way" when I have a new topic.

Click to expand...

I do all my planning when I design the job (drawing stage) and set the PLC up to make my life easy when programming. Once again, the design is the most important part in my view - get the design wrong and you are dead.
By the time it comes to programming I already know what I have to do.
The first step is to set up my sections in the software - eg: Shutdown alarms, Critical Alarms, Non Critical Alarms, Alarm Handling, Communications, Calculations, BMS Interface, Control Programme etcetera.
I then type in all my symbols and start writing software.
With all the above consideration and preparation I can write software very quickly - it just flows. There is then some examination and revision after the initial software is written - usually a day or two later (sleep on it first).
It is the same when I am commissioning - I just zip in and out of sections and commission parts of the software at a time - never all together.
When you get used to working that way it becomes intuative and if you have done your preparation properly it is really very easy. You have to know your programme well and work through it methodically.
I am quite often working with up to 20 PLCs, all networked with lots of global I/O, and have all programs open at once, moving between each program constantly to make sure everything works as intended.
If your 'head is up to it', it is not that difficult.
Automated power stations are interest6ing, particularly if the power station is 'live' and you can shut it down with a simple finger slip. Been there too.
I would only use the painful software for very simple jobs. It will suit my purpose for this job as once done will be repeated with minor adjustments for each application. I would never use it for most of my work as it would take too long to get the job done.
I work for myself and the quicker I get the job programmed and commissioned the quicker I am on to the next job and the more money I make. If I allow, say, 4 weeks for programming and commissioning and I complete the job in 2 weeks I make a lot more money. If that scenario happens regularly, the amount of money I have to buy good red wine is accumulative.
I very rarely have a call back to a job where I have not done something correctly or have made a mistake due to my diligence when writing and commissioning software. Cannot think of an occasion in the last 4-5 years to be honest - proper, thought out and documented commissioning is absolutely essential.
My original enquiry was regarding the reliability or the hardware and I was also interested to find out if there have been any bugs found in the firmware. Service is also of prime concern. I did look at the software and knew I would dislike it straight away - that opinion has not changed at all - dislike it more than ever.

I have not programmed it yet -
But have been told that the Analogue needs to have a filter written for it (This is a program step)
it will cause problems otherwise

but have been told that the analogue needs to have a filter written for it (this is a program step)

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pita!!!!

I've used a couple of Unitronics PLCs... software's OK, referencing I/O is quite good as well (drop down list). I actually used an old one my boss had recovered from an upgrade to train up our apprentice in the workshop on basics like wiring transistor outputs, analog I/O etc.

They're designed as a cost effective PLC for lower end jobs, and if that's what you're using them for then they're great. The two that I've put in haven't had any problems since we put them in 3 years ago.

EM44 said:

I want to apologize to Damian and the other participants, who feel offended by my post! I'm really sorry! I didn't think for a second that my post can hurt someone! I just wanted to point why I personally like Unitronics PLC...
I hope that soon Unitronics will issue new series of controllers and relevant software and they will have not the disadvantages you pointed, keeping the advantages that keep many people working with these PLC.

Click to expand...

Don't appologize for anything. You were simply stating your opinion and I was giving mine. We all look at things through a different set of glasses. I was not offended, but more so trying to make the counter point that your argument is selective. It may very well be that being more "clever" will help you get your programs done faster, but is it good software design that you force people to be clever to be efficient?

My complaint is simple. There is no reason for the software to be like this. It simply would not take that much effort to add better keyboard support, fix some of the copy/paste issues, and refine some of the data entry methods. The only one that would be a bear to fix is the method for making ladder connections. It just seems like Unitronics scoffs at these things as "not a big deal", or "only affects a small minority", or "is making a mountain out of a mole hill".

I guarantee you that it is not just I and Bob that feel this way. The problem is you never hear the rest complain because they simply move on to something else.

For those of us who go through the pains of figuring everything out ahead of time, the actually coding is a very dry and mundane operation. It becomes a chore. Like all chores, we usually seek to minimize the time we spend getting them done.