OT:Still Don't Get It

Why do all software manufactures assume your PC or laptop will run nothing but their software product ans their CPU hogging services?

On my laptop I have, Inductive Automation's Ignition, Rockwell Automation's Factory Talk ME and Siemens WinCC, All three assume I will tolerate loading of their preferred data base services.

My solution is typically to shut down their preferred service in Manual Start mode, but many times when I launch their product I forget to start their preferred service an error occurs on startup causing me grief to remember which service I need to start.

Most hate it, you're not alone.
But the solution to all your frustations will be solved after a few hours of setting up VMPlayer. FREE!!!

They are doing engineering tools as 20 years ago with separate .dlls and services.
There is enough of memory in PC, so those things can put all inside the engineering application.exe.
Result, "kepwares" and "linx" are always compatible with application itself.

You will be pleased to know that Omron CX-One shuts down completely. The only PLC software I do not run in a box.

Citect also shuts down completely.

My other source of annoyance is all the files that are saved by a lot of applications. Siemens PLC software saves stuff all over the hard drive for example. A mate of mine reckons it 'infects' the hard drive.

This bothers me too, even though I run everything in seperate VMs. I recently had to install a Siemens tool that would only run in Windows 7 Pro 32bit. Who uses that?
Seems to me like bad software ingineering.

I run Windows 7 Pro x 64 bit almost exclusively these days - ruddy brilliant!
I also dual boot Windows 7 Pro x 32 bit for software like Modscan - have not had time to see if it will run in a box yet - too busy.

I am training in a new Panasonic Toughbook CF52-SLCBUDE
which has Windows 7 Pro 64 bit installed.
The only package I have installed to date is Step 7 V5.5.
My Wincc Flexible 2008 (I think SP2) will not install, but I have an upgrade on order. Getting everything to work will take some time.

I also have Easybuilder 8000 from Weintek working OK.

What I need to get running are as follows:
Cx-One (OMRON)
RS Logix 5
RS Logix 500
Panelbuilder
RS Linx
GX Developer (Mitsubishi)
Schneider PL7 Pro
Simatic Step 5 (should be fun)
DirectSoft5

And a few more too.

Should be fun.

I have all Siemens and Rockwell software installed on the same Win 7 64 bit PC. No problem. They both install a lot of drivers, and database services and whatnot. It does look irritating, but they dont seem to interfere with each other, and the PC runs at OK speed.
If anyone have a confirmed case of that x software dont want to run alongside y software, then it would be very interesting to hear. I have many times heard that Siemens and RS wont run on the same PC. But I have for the last 10+ years had both installed in uncountable combinations of software versions, PCs and OS'es. I have yet to see any problems.

NB. I dont count that RSLinx and Siemens wants the serial port for itself as a problem that can be blamed on Siemens or RS. It is the nature of the serial port.

NBNB. Oh, there have been many problems, but not with Siemens and RS interfering with each other.

As Jesper says I too have run Rockwell software along with Siemens in Various Operating systems for many years the only issue I found was RSLinx hogging the com port, simple fix, just shut down RSLinx when not using it.

Even worse is when these arrogant apps maintain control of your serial port after a re-boot, so when you change platforms you have to spend 15 or 20 minutes manipulating the port and re-booting yet again!

Manufactuerer's programmers need to have a mandatory six month period carrying the laptop and tool kit for real PLC technicians and engineers in the field before they should be allowed to write software. Don't give me twirling ladders - give me software that fully unloads on shutdown. Give me software that lets me store programs in the directory structure that works for me. Give me software that doesn't need 20 minutes and three utilities to move an HMI configuration from a server to my field laptop. Give me ............

PC hogging software and the balance between fluff and stuff

Tom Jenkins said:

Manufactuerer's programmers need to have a mandatory six month period carrying the laptop and tool kit for real PLC technicians and engineers in the field before they should be allowed to write software.

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Ditto, at least not write PLC software. The laptops they carry around must have programming and HMI software for programming two different brands of PLC.

Don't give me twirling ladders - give me software that fully unloads on shutdown.

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Yes, less fluff and more stuff..... more speedy stuff. I would want faster updates and to update more variables.

Give me software that lets me store programs in the directory structure that works for me.

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That is so easy to do! I have this complaint with UNIX/LINUX software that thinks the directories should be like UNIX/LINUX too.
One thing that must be avoided is storing data in the Program Files directory.

Give me software that doesn't need 20 minutes and three utilities to move an HMI configuration from a server to my field laptop. Give me ............

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That comes under more speed stuff.

I favor stuff over fluff. I like lean and mean.

As far as software hogging the system, I know that it is intentional. Loading the communication modules on startup was initially done to make life easy for the user. It also guarantees that the PLC and HMI programming software have access to the I/O ports. However, the modules should be loaded only when starting the PLC programming software or HMI software. The down side of this approach is that loading the HMI or PLC programming software will appear to take longer.
Also, what if the other PLC brand has grabbed the port already? Who is the user going to call and curse at? It will be the company that didn't hog the I/O because it didn't work.

It's just poor software design plain and simple. IMO I don't see it getting much better anytime soon.

Best solution is virtualization. I run everything in a vm and nothing on my host.

Recently for my office machine I purchased a desktop server vs a desktop pc and run everthing in vm's that can be moved to my laptop easily when I travel and such.

VM's make it much easier to isolate software bugs and other issues. Keeping revs of software and CPR releases of various titles together in the same vm helps also.

The Plc Kid said:

It's just poor software design plain and simple. IMO I don't see it getting much better anytime soon.

Best solution is virtualization. I run everything in a vm and nothing on my host.

Recently for my office machine I purchased a desktop server vs a desktop pc and run everthing in vm's that can be moved to my laptop easily when I travel and such.

VM's make it much easier to isolate software bugs and other issues. Keeping revs of software and CPR releases of various titles together in the same vm helps also.

Click to expand...

Only issue I have with VM is virus and malware detection. Last month our business internet provider shut us down due to malware originating from within our office. We had to hire an IT consultant to come to our office and scan all our PCs and laptops before our internet provider would restore our service. All laptops were clean.
We were shut down again for malware after services was restored and same IT guy had to come back ( at our expense again ) and was eventually traced back to malware sitting on a VM session.

As far as virus protection is concerned you need to treat each VM as an individual computer

Add IT to the problem

Don't mind using VM's used them on my last two jobs, always been a tech either controls or robotics so I set my computer up like I need it. Now I accepted a job as Electrical Controls Engineer at a plant that I worked for years ago and this is a position that wasn't here before, so for the last three months I been trying to set up computers to run allen bradley software old(plc2) and new and the corporate IT guys don't know why I think I need admin rights, or the ability to access add and remove programs, or access to device manager. Try changing a com port when you can't access them!