A job with Uncle Sam.

Liam Moran · Aug 31, 2012

This is the first thread I have started here.
We have this project to do in the Mid West USA, it is a robot palletising cell with automated pallet handling conveyors. The robot and the pallet conveyors are secondhand, with the bag conveyors and gripper supplied new of our own manufacture. We have done several of these installations (actually around 50) with variants in Ireland and the UK. I know of a few pitfalls like the mains voltage and frequency being different to what we are used to.
What other issues are we likely to encounter?
I would be very interested to hear views from the American guys on here.

Thanking y'all in advance.
Oh, and I had better say please, too.

LadderLogic · Aug 31, 2012

One thing is, the expression "Uncle Sam" applies to the US governement, not to the country as a whole. If someone says he/she "works for Uncle Sam" we immedialtely assume he/she works for a defense company, for military, for an intelligence outfit and so on

Other that that, I don't think you'll encounter anything you would not be able to cope with. Little things: 'spanners' are 'wrenches', wire sizes are in 'gauge' (or even 'gage'!) rather than in sq.mm, 'earthing' is called 'grounding', this and that... Most Europeans find the local beers and coffee lacking, to say the least.

Mark Buskell · Aug 31, 2012

The government will be a stickler in that you follow all regulations and codes.
Don't assume anything. If you are not clear on who/what is responsible for some item, ask for clarification. A lot depends on which branch of the government you are dealing with. On a job I did, they wanted provisions that the machines decibel level be tested. They also referenced many old testing methods and we had to clarify every one on them. The system that I worked on also had a provision that all parts had to be off the shelf and locally available. We had a Grainger nearby the base so parts where no issue.

Peter Nachtwey · Aug 31, 2012

I object and totally off topic

LadderLogic said:
Most Europeans find the local beers and coffee lacking, to say the least.

Get good northwest micro brew. They are as good as anywhere on the planet.
I do agree the large commercial stuff is pretty poor. Having spent some time in Ireland I liked Guinness and Smithwicks.

Guiness in Ireland is in a class all its own and tastes good warm too. Here everything must be refrigerated so it isn't the same here because here nitrogen or something is used to cause the fiz. We do have beers or ales here that can match Smithwicks.

BTW, when I was in Ireland (twice for a total of 4 weeks ) they had the US domestic beers and the Irish were buying them instead of their better beers. Yuk.

Liam, you have a good thing in Ireland as long as you like your local beers.

Liam Moran · Sep 1, 2012

LadderLogic said:
One thing is, the expression "Uncle Sam" applies to the US governement, not to the country as a whole. If someone says he/she "works for Uncle Sam" we immedialtely assume he/she works for a defense company, for military, for an intelligence outfit and so on

Oh No! I am in trouble already. I need to get my facts straight.

Liam Moran · Sep 1, 2012

Mark Buskell said:
The government will be a stickler in that you follow all regulations and codes.
Don't assume anything. If you are not clear on who/what is responsible for some item, ask for clarification. A lot depends on which branch of the government you are dealing with. On a job I did, they wanted provisions that the machines decibel level be tested. They also referenced many old testing methods and we had to clarify every one on them. The system that I worked on also had a provision that all parts had to be off the shelf and locally available. We had a Grainger nearby the base so parts where no issue.

The job is for a small animal feed ingredients company whose parent company is over here. What is a Grainger?

Liam Moran · Sep 1, 2012

Peter Nachtwey said:
Get good northwest micro brew. They are as good as anywhere on the planet.
I do agree the large commercial stuff is pretty poor. Having spent some time in Ireland I liked Guinness and Smithwicks.

Guiness in Ireland is in a class all its own and tastes good warm too. Here everything must be refrigerated so it isn't the same here because here nitrogen or something is used to cause the fiz. We do have beers or ales here that can match Smithwicks.

BTW, when I was in Ireland (twice for a total of 4 weeks ) they had the US domestic beers and the Irish were buying them instead of their better beers. Yuk.

Liam, you have a good thing in Ireland as long as you like your local beers.

So you drank warm Guinness then. You must have been around Limerick, They are too mean to buy gas for the chillers and hoodwink the tourists by getting them to try the warm stuff.

Seriously though, in that area you can get chilled, unchilled or a half and half Guinness. I have not tried Smithwicks in years, I generally stick with Lagers. I am not a big beer drinker though, would rarely have more than two pints and that would have to be a special occasion.

Gil47 · Sep 1, 2012

A Grainger is an industrial supply store
http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/wwg/start.shtml

Tom Jenkins · Sep 1, 2012

The technical difficulties are fairly easy to fix - you have already mentioned voltage and frequency, which are the ones that could cost you big bucks if you don't keep them in mind. The US tends to use 4-20 mA for all analog devices, whereas in Europe 0-10 VDC is common. The US tends to wire 120 VAC to external switches and such, so watch for that. You may not find the same level of competence in installation labor here. Our best are as good as anyone, but if the bean counters control your client they may not be hiring the best.

There are some basic pholospophical differnces that you need to watch for. US contractors and companies tend to be less focused on getting the job done and more adversarial than they should be. The project manager may be acting more like an amateur attorney than a craftsman or engineer. In the US they are more likely to spend 40 hours fighting over a $500 backcharge than in Ireland. This varies widely. If you are working in the upper midwest the general standard of professionalism and results focus is higher than in many other parts of the US. However, I've worked with knuckleheads and true professionals everywhere - it is kind of the luck of the draw.

US companies generally pay in nominal 30 days, which in practice usually means 45 to 60 days after you deliver. However, there is a trend in the US to copy the 120 day payment terms that are common in parts of Europe, so check it out, and be vigilant on invoice due dates.

American humor is rougher than Irish - many of your jokes will go right over our heads, and our well intentioned barbs may seem insulting to you. You'll get used to it eventually.

If you are here in the winter, be ready for brutal cold. Unless you are from the far north of Ireland, you will have your breath taeken away by the wind howling out of the north and blowing across the great plains. It will catch you by surprise to walk out into a sunny, clear January day and find your face going numb because it is -20 F (-30 C), even without the wind.

Gas is cheap, cigarettes are expensive.

Oh - don't forget we drive on the right (as in correct) side of the road! (American humor)

Ken Roach · Sep 1, 2012

American Football is an entirely different game. What we call "soccer" is not nearly as popular.

If you have the opportunity to attend a college football game on a Saturday, do so: it's a good expression of midwestern culture.

There's a little exhibition game being played in Dublin this afternoon, in fact. My team is up 27 - 3 at the half.

Be aware also that it's an election year, and you will yearn for your well-spoken Prime Minister.

Liam Moran · Sep 1, 2012

Gil47 said:
A Grainger is an industrial supply store
http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/wwg/start.shtml

Looks like a dangerous place for a guy like me to visit....

Lancie1 · Sep 1, 2012

Yes, Grainger is a great source. I used them back in the old days. They were so good that often I would get the items delivered to the front door before I could finish the Purchase Order details. I was so impressed that I bought stock in the company with odd spare money. I was able to retire earlier, thanks to Grainger. If there is no local store, you can order via the Internet. I don't think they have expanded internationally to Ireland yet, but that will come, no doubt.

Liam Moran · Sep 1, 2012

Tom Jenkins said:
The technical difficulties are fairly easy to fix - you have already mentioned voltage and frequency, which are the ones that could cost you big bucks if you don't keep them in mind. The US tends to use 4-20 mA for all analog devices, whereas in Europe 0-10 VDC is common. The US tends to wire 120 VAC to external switches and such, so watch for that. You may not find the same level of competence in installation labor here. Our best are as good as anyone, but if the bean counters control your client they may not be hiring the best.

There are some basic pholospophical differnces that you need to watch for. US contractors and companies tend to be less focused on getting the job done and more adversarial than they should be. The project manager may be acting more like an amateur attorney than a craftsman or engineer. In the US they are more likely to spend 40 hours fighting over a $500 backcharge than in Ireland. This varies widely. If you are working in the upper midwest the general standard of professionalism and results focus is higher than in many other parts of the US. However, I've worked with knuckleheads and true professionals everywhere - it is kind of the luck of the draw.

US companies generally pay in nominal 30 days, which in practice usually means 45 to 60 days after you deliver. However, there is a trend in the US to copy the 120 day payment terms that are common in parts of Europe, so check it out, and be vigilant on invoice due dates.

American humor is rougher than Irish - many of your jokes will go right over our heads, and our well intentioned barbs may seem insulting to you. You'll get used to it eventually.

If you are here in the winter, be ready for brutal cold. Unless you are from the far north of Ireland, you will have your breath taeken away by the wind howling out of the north and blowing across the great plains. It will catch you by surprise to walk out into a sunny, clear January day and find your face going numb because it is -20 F (-30 C), even without the wind.

Gas is cheap, cigarettes are expensive.

Oh - don't forget we drive on the right (as in correct) side of the road! (American humor)

You make some interesting points there, Tom.

Well I think I understand the American sense of Humo(u)r
at least up to a point.

I have experience of the cold, and I do have some natural insulation.

Gas is cheaper than over here, but your vehicles us more of it.
Worth it though to listen to the burbling V8s you guys love.
Fuel costs over here make those type of vehicles fantasy.

I can never understand the american fascination with the V Twin
motor in motorcyles, though. They are Harsh and noisy, certainly compared with my Honda Goldwings Flat 6 Cylinder(also American built)of which I possess a few examples of varying ages.

Thank you for taking the time to reply, it is much appreciated.

Liam Moran · Sep 1, 2012

Ken Roach said:
American Football is an entirely different game. What we call "soccer" is not nearly as popular.

If you have the opportunity to attend a college football game on a Saturday, do so: it's a good expression of midwestern culture.

There's a little exhibition game being played in Dublin this afternoon, in fact. My team is up 27 - 3 at the half.

Be aware also that it's an election year, and you will yearn for your well-spoken Prime Minister.

I must confess to not understanding the game of American Football.
Are you saying also that we have a well spoken Prime Minister?
Never knew we had one of those.

Liam Moran · Sep 1, 2012

Just another Question,,
What colour cables are generally used for different voltages?

A job with Uncle Sam.

Liam Moran

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