Electrical knowledge

So I'm a new grad and I'm learning my way through automation as I land in different projects. However, as an electrical engineering graduate, it bothers me a lot that I almost have no idea what electricians are talking about. My knowledge of practical electrical design is very little. I'm picking things up as I go along obviously but it's really getting under my skin.

Is there a way for me to learn practical aspects of electrical design and troubleshooting as it relates to automation? Let's say the goal is to design and implement a PLC panel from scratch. Any books/courses etc?

I obviously have the fundamental knowledge and I can figure things out once specific issues pop up but I want to know what the hell the electrician is talking about when I have to troubleshoot an electrical issue.

I understand how you feel. I started working in industry in January 2011 and graduated in EE in May 2011. I felt the same as you when i started. I had little to no idea how to read electrical schematics or how most things worked. But with time (and it doesn't take as long as you may think), you'll catch on and know what the electricians are talking about. Best advice i can give you is be vocal and ask questions. If there is something you don't understand, ask questions, even if you get laughed at.

Remember, that piece of paper we worked 4+ years to get doesn't mean we know everything. It means we should have the ability to learn anything.

Unfortunately if you want to learn the electrician trade, you should have started with that first, then did the EE schooling. The problem is that electricians are so paranoid and turf-protective (I was an electrician and a EE so can talk about it now) that they won't give an EE the time of day, much less any help. Unfortunate, but that is the way it is in most places.

I'm an Industrial Electrician and a entry level PLC Programmer. I also understand your issue, that's why I took a job as an electrician and entry level programmer while earning my EE degree. In addition my company just hired a guy with a C&E degree who had a concentration in Automation yet he didn't know how to network the PC to the Processor.

To me becoming a programmer has a very confusing career path. Yet as Helliana mentioned it just takes time. In my case I needed to be humble and keep the long term goal in mind as I ask questions and learn my trade.

When it comes to learning the electrical trade I have been wide open to teaching but believe it or not many guys dont want to have to learn before they earn. Glad your earger to learn.

Electrical Engineers should be required to spend 1 year in the field as an Electrician apprentice. I think this would help them understand a lot more of what goes on after they stamp that drawing and send it out.

I have seen a few Engineers in Training that had their eyes opened when they had the opportunity to spend an extended amount of time out in the field.

Dallin said:

Electrical Engineers should be required to spend 1 year in the field as an Electrician apprentice. I think this would help them understand a lot more of what goes on after they stamp that drawing and send it out.

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The real problem is that most EE degrees do not focus on one single field of electrical engineering. The degree contains controls/automation, communications, micromanufacturing, high lines power transmission, etc, etc, etc. They only halfway practical experience you get is your senior project your last year. The piece of paper just means you have an extensive background in engineering and therefore should be able to figure out all the details and specializations on your own and on the job.

However, if someone KNOWS they want to focus on industrial automation when they graduate, they should be looking for an internship where they can get practical experience before they graduate.

I was talking with one EE friend of mine and was suprised to hear that they where taking a 3 day course to study electrical code. That amazed me because while I was doing my electrical apprentiship Code was one of the most important coarses we had to study. I could not figure out how someone that is supposed to design electrical systems did not know how to go through a code book to see if the design was even legal.

It is what it is I guess. They design it...I make it run...and between the two of us make sure no one gets hurt.

I was talking with one EE friend of mine and was suprised to hear that they where taking a 3 day course to study electrical code.

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What amazes me is that the EE curriculum now includes even 3 days on the National Electrical Code. The professors that teach EE are mostly ivory-tower theory people. Practical applications are not what they know and teach. Most of the ones I studied under knew very little about electrical codes, as if they do not exist. At most I had a little study of standards from the IEEE (Institute of Electrical and Electronic Engineers) organization. However, many of the rules adopted by the NEC were first developed by the IEEE. 99% of what I know about the NEC I learned after getting a BS in EE from a state university.

Yes I did have supposedly hands-on training while in Electrical Engineering college. I had to go on the Cooperative Extension program, going to school 3 months then working 3 months. I was signed up with NASA. I learned how to make space-worthy solder joints, but nothing much about the NEC. NASA rocket circuits were so far away from the mostly-residential-construction electrical code that it was not even funny. Residential electrical construction does not have to worry about fingerprints on the connectors, or taking a shower and wearing a clean suit with hair covering while working, or having at least 3 redundant paths for every circuit function.

From my experiences with EE's: Please be humble and not arrogant. I've dealt with too many college grads that came out onto the floor with their superior attitude and immediately we would label them as "educated idiots". I'm sorry and this is extremely judgemantal, but more than once our controls engineer would be called out because something wasn't running, or running correctly. He would examine the situation and before long exclaim (loudly) "well, it's not wired right!!" sometimes followed by more less-than-polite exclamations.
Once I practically forced him into my bosses office (which was in earshot of his tirade) to mutter "but it's wired to print" - which HE had designed.
Just MHO, from this side of the fence...

Once I practically forced him into my bosses office (which was in earshot of his tirade) to mutter "but it's wired to print" - which HE had designed.

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One of the most effective methods I ever found was to run the prints out to the field electricians BEFORE the final issue, and get their comments and feedback. Some things will work in paper but not in copper.

One of the most common errors is caused by "Normally Open" and "Normally Closed". Engineers have difficulty figuring out what the equipment suppliers mean by their version of those two terms. Often it comes down to making a guess with a 50% chance to get the polarity of the switch or relay contact wrong. Only a field test can prove it one way or the other. It is a lot easier to figure out how something operates when watching it run or holding it in your hand (what electricians have), than it is studying a spec sheet or a catalog page (what engineers have).

I don't know the rules in Canada, but in Minnesota an electrical engineer is qualified to take the Master electrician exam, I don't think there is the 5 years working under a Master requirement. If you are looking to learn the applicable code(s) in your area studying for, taking, and passing the Master exam is a good introduction to the electrical code.

If you are looking for "hands-on" or "factory-floor" level knowledge pertinent to automation, Hugh Jack's free PLC book has some good information on common sensors and control circuits.

Siemens has some basic online run throughs of control and electrical topics at the following link:

http://www.industry.usa.siemens.com...ck-step-courses/Pages/quick-step-courses.aspx

Dallin said:

Electrical Engineers should be required to spend 1 year in the field as an Electrician apprentice. I think this would help them understand a lot more of what goes on after they stamp that drawing and send it out.

I have seen a few Engineers in Training that had their eyes opened when they had the opportunity to spend an extended amount of time out in the field.

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Hell, this should be a requirement for all engineering grads. i have run across so many instances of a piece a equipment design so tight and compact that it is virtually impossible to do any kind of maintenance on it. A lot of design engineers must figure their stuff will never break or have a problem.

As a controls engineer with an EE background, I was in the same boat years ago. It's helps to have people around you willing to share their knowledge. I knew very little about panel building or power wiring. It's nice when you work as a team because everyone has their specialty. I frequently talk to the electricians regarding the drawings I produce to see how they like the way everything is designed and if they have any suggestions to make them easier to follow. More often than not they have good points.

It's hard to swallow your pride but in the end it's the right thing to do and people will hopefully respect you for it in the long run. If you work for a big union plant however, all these rules are null and void