PLC Backup and Change Managment

RheinhardtP · Nov 7, 2012

Hi guys,

Im interested in finding out what PLC Backup and/or Change Managment software is being used in the industries.

We are using MDT Autosave at the moment. I have also worked with software call VersionWorks.

Any other software out there that is woth having a look at, Also to what extend to they assist in backing up your SCADA and typical configuration files for different devices (drives,instrumentation ect.)?

Rheinhardt

RheinhardtP · Nov 8, 2012

dmargineau · Nov 8, 2012

For Rockwell products, FactoryTalk AssetCentre http://www.rockwellautomation.com/rockwellsoftware/assetmgmt/assetcentre/

is the dedicated tool for securely and centrally manage your factory and process automation production environments.

James Mcquade · Nov 8, 2012

we had custom software written.

we keep a master and working set of files.
we do a daily plc backup.
we compare the plc program daily to the master file and send out e-mails of the program differences, daily.

regards,
james

Crash+Flash · Nov 8, 2012

I came across this when I was researching version control for the office;
http://www.versiondog.com/
Haven't used it, but it sounds promising.

RheinhardtP · Nov 8, 2012

James Mcquade said:
we had custom software written.

we keep a master and working set of files.
we do a daily plc backup.
we compare the plc program daily to the master file and send out e-mails of the program differences, daily.

regards,
james

Thank you for the feedback. Do you perform these tasks manualy? Seems cumbersome if that is the case.

Crash+Flash said:
I came across this when I was researching version control for the office;
http://www.versiondog.com/
Haven't used it, but it sounds promising.

Yes this seems like it covers a big aray of 3rd party devices, will give it a test run.

Oakley · Nov 9, 2012

Rheinhardt,

If you are already using MDT Autosave, what issues/features you finding deficient?

Reason I ask is that we are considering changing from a manual procedure to one of a more automatic software package. MDT Autosave is a consideration due to we use RA PLC's and WW ArchestrA, and MDT supports both.

RheinhardtP · Nov 11, 2012

HI Oakley,

Sorry for the late reply. I think in general MDT is a pretty good product but i do have a couple of issues with it.

1. Im not a fan of the System Platform *.cab backup not so much an MDT issue. The reason is corrupt databases get trasfeered with the backup and when you try and recover it fail on Databse creation.

I prefer the *aaPKG and *.csv methods. I think Wonderware needs to create a check for Database integrity when doing a backup.

2. The way it determines licenses is a total waist when using the universal plug in and pointing to a file directly, i want to save our VSD,Softstarter and intellegent drive config files. What we have done to avoid this is to do a Folder structure and then point to the folder. However every time i open the folder MDT ALWAYS sees differences. This will cause confusion and will result in clients using their local backups instead of the server backup.

I am still playing with different combinations but for now it seems to be doing the job.

On the PLC side it works pretty well and i have not picked up any issues.

Hope this helps

Rheinhardt

OkiePC · Nov 11, 2012

We just have a folder with all the program files, cad files, manuals, documentation, all sorted by machine on a shared drive that IT makes backups of. We back them up periodically to three laptops and a removable drive, or burn a disc prior to any major IT hardware upgrades, or when we need local copies to work with during planned outages, which often coincide with our planned "innages" if you know what I mean.

It's a redundant roll yer own manually operated backup system but hasn't let us down. Previous employers did much the same. Disc burning was more prevalent there. Here, our IT guys have tornado rated offsite storage service to protect us, but we pretend it doesn't exist and make systematic multiple copies of everything manually. Yes, it takes a few minutes to do this right and leave a nice rev comment and rung notes if necessary, but it forces familiarity and personal management of changes, rather than automated ones.

The Plc Kid · Nov 12, 2012

i have used MDT before and had some of the same complaints the OP has and I now use assetcentre but we are a 99% rockwell plant so it makes sense.

The thing that I do not like about asset centre is that someone can do a GET and get a copy of the program without checking it out and they can use that to make chnages.

I was told by the assetcentre product manager at RSTeched 2012 that there was not way to turn this feature off and he could not see why I wanted to. As he said with asset centre it can go out and scan and detect chnages then you would know someone used a GET but why not give the customer the OPTION to turn it off in the first place..

If a person just wants version control I would recommend sharepoint to anyone. And the cool thing is it's free. Just get a old server or decent pc to run it on with server 2008 R2.

Oceansoul · Nov 12, 2012

We use the Factory Talk Asset Center at work. It seems to work well. It isnt too keen on larger SCADA backups however, so for those we image them with Symantec BESR and store on a backup server.

FTAC can also be used to store/archive load files/configurations from instruments i.e. flow meters, level meters etc and then anyone needed them has access i.e. out of hours call out.

MrMDT · Nov 12, 2012

Hey all,

I work for MDT, obviously, so keep that in mind.

Just wanted to clear up a few things, from a technical point.

MDT is a partner with Invensys, and we do have a "Endorsed Product" that is sold by Invensys and their distribution for System Platform. It combines real-time tracking at the object level of all objects in System Platform, via object export (i.e. aaPKG) and some more advanced features. It provides real-time Undo, Compare and Disaster recovery. It also enhances the CAB backup procedures and operations. It's called A4SP (AutoSave for System Platform), and you can contact any Invensys/Wonderware distributor for more info (or us direct)

From a Universal/licensing standpoint, you can use that for single files or groups of files. A more financially viable option for single files is also our Documents offering. Also, there is a Universal customer scriptable option which allows you to develop your own methods to deal with files. Any changes to any of those files will create the difference noted above. Maybe identifying the cause could lead to a solution.

I am not here to sell, and its a good conversation, so I will drop out for now. I wanted to clear up those few points, cause we do have a non-CAB-only System Platform support, and there are many options for single files other than Universal alone.

I'll quietly monitor in case any other questions from a technical standpoint pop-up, just ask! I can answer what I can.

rpop91 · Nov 12, 2012

We use MDT Autosave as well. Have also seen Subverison around.

RheinhardtP · Nov 12, 2012

MrMDT said:
Hey all,

I work for MDT, obviously, so keep that in mind.

Just wanted to clear up a few things, from a technical point.

MDT is a partner with Invensys, and we do have a "Endorsed Product" that is sold by Invensys and their distribution for System Platform. It combines real-time tracking at the object level of all objects in System Platform, via object export (i.e. aaPKG) and some more advanced features. It provides real-time Undo, Compare and Disaster recovery. It also enhances the CAB backup procedures and operations. It's called A4SP (AutoSave for System Platform), and you can contact any Invensys/Wonderware distributor for more info (or us direct)

From a Universal/licensing standpoint, you can use that for single files or groups of files. A more financially viable option for single files is also our Documents offering. Also, there is a Universal customer scriptable option which allows you to develop your own methods to deal with files. Any changes to any of those files will create the difference noted above. Maybe identifying the cause could lead to a solution.

I am not here to sell, and its a good conversation, so I will drop out for now. I wanted to clear up those few points, cause we do have a non-CAB-only System Platform support, and there are many options for single files other than Universal alone.

I'll quietly monitor in case any other questions from a technical standpoint pop-up, just ask! I can answer what I can.

Thank you for the feedback. Nice to know we have somebody on the forum that work for MDT. I have a couple of questions.

1. I will look into the *.aaPKG backups this is defintely the preffered method for system platform.

2. What plugin would you reccomend for configuration files for instrumentation/drives. Bearing in mind they will not be used as often as the PLC/System Platform. Also that certain PLC may have up to 120 files. Ideally we would like to be able to launch them from the MDT Browser.

Look forward to your response.

Rheinhardt

MrMDT · Nov 13, 2012

Hi RheinhardtP,

Yea, the A4SP product should be a great fit. Let us know and we can arrange a demo.

For the other, best to PM me the types of instrumentation and drives, that way I can help your particular need, and not derail the thread.

In addition to the published supported products, our partners and customers have come up with a bunch of other solutions for other devices ranging from Ethernet switches to Dos-based older software. We may have run across the devices in particular.

PLC Backup and Change Managment

RheinhardtP

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RheinhardtP

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dmargineau

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James Mcquade

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Crash+Flash

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RheinhardtP

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Oakley

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RheinhardtP

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OkiePC

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The Plc Kid

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Oceansoul

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MrMDT

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rpop91

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RheinhardtP

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MrMDT

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