Customer ethics?

This is the 2nd time in the past year this has happened to us.

We are asked to bid, with others, on an automation solution to some legacy equipment.

The other bidders give the customer an up to date version of what they have. We go in and not only give the customer an up to date version of what they have, but also analyze why the legacy equipment is giving them problems and add solution to the problems in our bid.

Then after submitting proposal, we hear nothing but crickets for 1 or 2 months. Then a new bid package is sent out to all asking others to bid on our solution.

How to handle this? I always hate going into too much detail on bids for this very reason. If you raise a stink with the customer, chances are you will never be asked back.

Do you really want to work with low ethic customers??

Dan Bentler

curlyandshemp said:

If you raise a stink with the customer, chances are you will never be asked back.

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Why would you want to be?

I have done lots of free up front work for customers and clients, knowing from experience they will treat me fairly. There are never guarantees I'll get the future work, but they will give me every reasonable consideration and not pick my brain and pass it to competitors.

I have guys I refuse to quote because I know they are just using me to price check the guy that is already wired into the project.

I have phone calls I don't bother to return because they just want something for nothing.

I always start out giving everyone the benefit of the doubt. If they do something a little questionable I call them on it - if they are embarrassed because they didn't understand or realize, or I misundestood the scenario, then no harm is done. If they turn out to be knotheads, I feel no embarrassment in pointing that out, and I feel no desire to stay on their phone list.

leitmotif said:

Do you really want to work with low ethic customers??

Dan Bentler

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One of them has been a customer of ours for over 10 years and given us millions in business.

The other is a dairy/food industry giant.

Bid exactly what is specified in the Quote for the base bid price. then exclude any extra work need not covered in their scope without too many details as an option price adder. this could be T&M or a separate lump sum.

So, if it is a good customer go back to them and tell them you are unhappy about their sharing your engineering with your competitors. You donb't have to be confrintational, just frank. Find out if there is a new project engineer or purchasing agent involved that isn't familiar with your company's work and normal business practice.

And take away the message that you don't give away as much info on future RFPs unless there is an understanding in place. Next time bid the job as requested and save the extra info until you have a PO and you can present it as a change order opportunity.

Tom Jenkins said:

So, if it is a good customer go back to them and tell them you are unhappy about their sharing your engineering with your competitors. You donb't have to be confrintational, just frank. Find out if there is a new project engineer or purchasing agent involved that isn't familiar with your company's work and normal business practice.

And take away the message that you don't give away as much info on future RFPs unless there is an understanding in place. Next time bid the job as requested and save the extra info until you have a PO and you can present it as a change order opportunity.

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Sometimes 'thinking outside the box' is not a good thing. We always prided ourselves on being innovative, but is a proposal intellectual property?

curlyandshemp said:

.... is a proposal intellectual property?

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It can be, but I suspect only if you had some disclaimers, notice of proprietary info, and copy right notices on the proposal. If you hadn't identified it as protected information but just included the info as part of the text of the proposal you are probably out of luck.

And, speaking of disclaimers, I'm not an attorney and don't even play one on TV.

Fact of life I an afraid - they all want everything for nothing these days and being 'screwed' appears to be the norm.

Camouflage Details

I usually mask or abbreviate part numbers, control schemes and specifics if I sense a disingenuous client - new or old.

curlyandshemp said:

One of them has been a customer of ours for over 10 years and given us millions in business.

The other is a dairy/food industry giant.

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Well that adds to the equation for sure.
The whole thing may be an honest mistake. I think I would go talk with them and find out how the two of you can continue to do business.

Dan Bentler

When I quote a job I detail fully what is included, excluded and options/variations. Actually saw a copy of one of my quotations on a competitors desk! I was doing some software for them and I am sure it was left there deliberately for me to see - it was too much in view. In other words 'they are our customer not yours'!
Never quoted that potential customer again.

leitmotif said:

Well that adds to the equation for sure.
The whole thing may be an honest mistake. I think I would go talk with them and find out how the two of you can continue to do business.

Dan Bentler

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Unfortunatley not the case. One of these clients is a large multi national American company that is buying into Obama's buy American policy.

This is why in our proposals we must show we are thinking outside the box and give them a better solution.

Funny how these geographically challenged CEOs think a company from Kansas is closer to a plant in Buffalo than us from Toronto.

Can't you get them to sign a non-disclosure agreement with your proposal? Either that or be more vague about how you would meet the specifications.

I agree with Tom. There are some customer that you only do business with once.

While I agree that Toronto is closer to Buffalo than Kansas the distance difference isn't that great especially if there is internet access.

curlyandshemp said:

This is the 2nd time in the past year this has happened to us.

We are asked to bid, with others, on an automation solution to some legacy equipment.

The other bidders give the customer an up to date version of what they have. We go in and not only give the customer an up to date version of what they have, but also analyze why the legacy equipment is giving them problems and add solution to the problems in our bid.

Then after submitting proposal, we hear nothing but crickets for 1 or 2 months. Then a new bid package is sent out to all asking others to bid on our solution.

How to handle this? I always hate going into too much detail on bids for this very reason. If you raise a stink with the customer, chances are you will never be asked back.

Click to expand...

When I read this (as a customer type), I see your bid as an orange among a group of apples. I may like what you propose, but I can't award a contract unless I have documentation showing my bids are truly competitive. I may very well want to award you the contract, but I can't. I have to get re-bids. Now, personally, I would have contacted you to let you know in advance before I asked everyone to base their quotes on the additional items you offered, but asking for a re-bid has got to happen. I have no choice.

On a another note, I never share quotes or prices with other vendors.