Automation and SCRUM?

SCRUM, agile development is nowaday a common thing that i can hear about all over today. Has anybody tested this within an automation project with PLC and HMI´s and so on.

I have now 7-yrs of exeprience with Automation and it feels like we are still in the "stone age" of PLC development. We have no sort of framework that we can use all over the world and when we are developing things it feels like the project model is based on:

Manager: Are you done yet? Are you done yet? Are you done yet? Are you done yet? Are you yet?

Developer: No i need to adjust some!No i need to adjust some!No i need to adjust some!No i need to adjust some!
..

And it also feels like older PLC programmer generation still lives in the 90ies when: Ohhh i have my own laptop.. Ohh i progamm with white gloves.. "Nooo one knows what i am doing its so complex that Jesus will come down and thank me for my skills of doing stuff no one understands". It is a "One man show" or "Ego mongo show".

So what kinda frameworks or project models or new ways of thinking do you follow?!

PLZ Share some idéas.

Oh, I am sorry, but we are still in Six Sigma epoch here, with colored belts and such. Not far away from Total Quality Management period. We are slow changing fads, if you know what I mean.

We dont really have a formalised development method. Maybe we should have. Maybe not.

Personally speaking, I am most productive AND inventive when I am facing a hard deadline and sitting in the thick of it.
On the other hand, when there is long schedule, and plans are laid out in good time, my productivity drops to a trickle.
Because of this, scrum appeals to me.

In the past I have participated in projects which I will describe as using top-down. I hated this, as the initial specification stage was far too prolonged and complex, and when the specifications were set in stone it only hindered creativity later on.

SCRUM is the latest buzzword, eh? At least they're using football terminology to market common sense these days.

I guess it is if you make it so

Well what im basiclly lookin for a method that reduces stress amog ppl in this buisness. Make less space for the Stressed "I Am a godlike programmer" stereotype. Well sometimes it feels like scrum cuts abit into ppls ego and they dont want to make this branch easy for others bacause they live through their work and are fine with havving their *** full with work. Lateley ive experience many ppl that are automation engineers that suffers alot from stress and have no life. There must be something that could reduce that through some kinda framework or method or filosofy. It feels that something has to be done. There´s alot of discussion on application level but no one is asking for a better framework for the programmer community.

Buzzwords are useful in the justification of the hiring of useless brother in laws.

It goes without saying that if there is a lone programmer, then the company must have a fall-back if that person gets sick, leaves for another company, or other ways become unavailable. So there should be at least one person, either working in parallel, or at least fully uptodate with what he is doing and can takeover if need be.
A lone programmer that dont want to share or show off his work is not good.
In my department, I am the main programmer, but I have two persons that help and can take over. I have made training courses in my program concept so that they dont start from zero. And they do some smaller projects by themselves so that they keep up their programming abilities.

Jim.M said:

SCRUM, agile development is nowaday a common thing that i can hear about all over today. Has anybody tested this within an automation project with PLC and HMI´s and so on.

I have now 7-yrs of exeprience with Automation and it feels like we are still in the "stone age" of PLC development. We have no sort of framework that we can use all over the world and when we are developing things it feels like the project model is based on:

Manager: Are you done yet? Are you done yet? Are you done yet? Are you done yet? Are you yet?

Developer: No i need to adjust some!No i need to adjust some!No i need to adjust some!No i need to adjust some!
..

And it also feels like older PLC programmer generation still lives in the 90ies when: Ohhh i have my own laptop.. Ohh i progamm with white gloves.. "Nooo one knows what i am doing its so complex that Jesus will come down and thank me for my skills of doing stuff no one understands". It is a "One man show" or "Ego mongo show".

So what kinda frameworks or project models or new ways of thinking do you follow?!

PLZ Share some idéas.

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Never heard of it - I guess I'm too busy programming...

I have nearly 30 years experience and I admit that I see in myself a lot of the attitude you describe. But then again, I have had to follow other programmers and often I wonder how some of them are able to operate the coffee maker.


.

Maybe not SCRUM, but...

Don't take this too personal, but if you program like you spell, I can see why it takes a while to complete a project.

Jim.M said:

Well what im basiclly lookin for a method that reduces stress amog ppl in this buisness. Make less space for the Stressed "I Am a godlike programmer" stereotype. Well sometimes it feels like scrum cuts abit into ppls ego and they dont want to make this branch easy for others bacause they live through their work and are fine with havving their *** full with work. Lateley ive experience many ppl that are automation engineers that suffers alot from stress and have no life. There must be something that could reduce that through some kinda framework or method or filosofy. It feels that something has to be done. There´s alot of discussion on application level but no one is asking for a better framework for the programmer community.

Click to expand...

As for reducing stress, I thought that this is why we have shooting ranges.

There are large players heading this direction. I went to a GEIP Sales Meeting last year where they talked about their new RXi product with some of those ideas. (The meeting this year did not mention this, so...?)
They are looking to sell hardware that includes "canned" software written by people who know that business best. It could be GEIP, an Integrator or OEM who has developed a specific product and would like to sell their proprietary solution to anyone who needs it. There hope was to end up with an "App Store" where one can go to purchase whatever they need to control their process or machine cell. Of course it would need to be properly configured and wired.

There are a couple of these that can be purchased today with GEIP software. One is a RXi Pumping platform, another similar system is "Smart Redundancy".

But I have not heard it called SCRUM, although some have dropped the 'R' in referring to it.

Well i can admit that im no guru when it comes to programming. But im better when I can follow some kind of a framework. But there is often little time to develope something like that in most projects.

RussB said:

Don't take this too personal, but if you program like you spell, I can see why it takes a while to complete a project.

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That's harsh when said to someone whos mother tongue isn't English...Maybe you should drop him a line in Swedish..

I've always found meeting deadlines and working under pressure is when I work best. When immersed in the project with no time to take 20 coffee breaks a day. I work fast and hard. On the other hand, a project lead time of 2 months and plenty of planning means I barely switch on until the last moment. Each to their own I guess, however you find yourself working best is the way you should strive to work.

RussB said:

Don't take this too personal, but if you program like you spell, I can see why it takes a while to complete a project.

Click to expand...

No problem. Im do not idientify my self through excellent spelling.... niether programming. And if i get upset i just play some BattleField 3 intead of going to a shooting range

I've always found meeting deadlines and working under pressure is when I work best. When immersed in the project with no time to take 20 coffee breaks a day. I work fast and hard. On the other hand, a project lead time of 2 months and plenty of planning means I barely switch on until the last moment. Each to their own I guess, however you find yourself working best is the way you should strive to work.

Click to expand...

I can agree with you.. I used to work like that but i got stressproblems after some yrs. Some periods i worked 10-14hrs a day for some months. I though well i i just get some sleep in the weekend everything will be fine.. but nooo.. Today im trying to work 8hrs a day productive as possible.. but due to some bad methods i always end upp with load of un expected problems in most project. Well i guess thats just the way this buisness is.

Stress is a state of mind - you have to have a mind first. Sorry - just joking. I just tell them all to p*** off and leave me alone. If they do not I pack up my laptop and leave the site - go back and they are all amenable - remarkable. Do not put up with any nonsense at all. I used to work on up to 14-15 projects a day - design (CAD) - software - supervise the panel building - you name it. And then go to site and commission while keeping an eye on what was going on in the office via VPN. These days working for myself things are much calmer and under control - but I still tell them to all p*** off!