PLC Recipe Control

Leeroy · Feb 25, 2013

Here we go,

Right now we want to use a barcode scanner to scan a parts order and when the operator scans the barcode, this sends a whole bunch of data(approx 30 pieces of data) in the PLC/HMI. Depending on the barcode, this will send different data then another. Will need integers, real and string (only 1 string) data types.

We currently have three SLC 5/03's (I believe all 16k) and a panelview 1000 on this line. These are all communicating between each other.

Now currently we have about 200 different part orders on the given machine which even though this would be a bad way to do it, is too much data just to store all data within the PLC. What I would like to do is use a database on a computer to hold all the information. The problem with this is I would need to have a ethernet connection in order to connect with our plant network.

This comes to a solution that I could go with currently. I would purchase a controlLogix PLC to still communicate with the other PLC's via DH485 and have another card which will connect to our network via ethernet. This would be a few of the part's I would need: 1756-ENBT and the 1756-DH485, I think I would also need the 1756-NET-AIC as well. The controlLogix will not have a program in it, all it is doing is just a gateway for the dh485 to ethernet 'conversion'. From this, we should be able to communicate to all PLC's via ethernet, yay.

From here, what are some options for me to use Microsoft Access (we have most information already on there) or some other piece of software that I can use to hold on the information I want? I could go with FT Manager but am wondering what other options I have. Also, is there another way to get from the DH485 to ethernet? Don't suggest to upgrade all processors to SLC 5/05 and to upgrade the panelview to a panelview 1000 plus (I believe that's ethernet), that's a little out of the budget.

If you need more information please let me know, thanks in advance!

James Mcquade · Feb 25, 2013

I would consider upgrading the 5/03's to 5/05 units and get everything on ethernet. your 5000 unit would be the master and send data to the others. this would be more efficient communication wise over the 485 network.

i would then get an HMI package such as wonderware, RSView, Intellloution and import the data base into the recipe part of the software. May not be possible. Others may have a better idea.

as you scan in your part number, the data base would then que the order (or whatever your process is).

regards,
james

Lancie1 · Feb 25, 2013

From here, what are some options for me to use Microsoft Access (we have most information already on there) or some other piece of software that I can use to hold on the information I want?

I noticed that the MicroLogix 1500 PLC has a built-in "Recipe" function that allows storing data for up to 256 Recipes in the PLC memory. See Chapter 22 of the MicroLogix 1200 & MicroLogix 1500 Instruction Set Reference Manual. The ML 1500 also has Ethernet capability using the 1761-NET-ENI Ethernet Interface. The MicroLogix 1500 1764-LRP Processor is the one you need if you also want the Data Logging function. The Recipes can be stored to the controller's optional memory module and swapped or transported between PLCs.

RSL · Feb 25, 2013

I would go a step farther. I would upgrade the SLC 5/03's to 1747-AENT's. Then put ALL of the code in the CLX.

I try and never miss an opportunity to replace old hardware. I also try and never buy old hardware to replace older hardware with.

Comms. between all of the things you are talking about are far easier in CLX and have options. Also organizing recipes and names are far easier with arrays of udt's.

My .02

RSL

Lancie1 · Feb 25, 2013

RSL said:
I would go a step farther. I would upgrade the SLC 5/03's to 1747-AENT's. Then put ALL of the code in the CLX.

--

That's a little out of the budget.

RSL · Feb 25, 2013

Leeroy said:
I would purchase a controlLogix PLC to still communicate with the other PLC's via DH485 and have another card which will connect to our network via ethernet. This would be a few of the part's I would need: 1756-ENBT and the 1756-DH485, I think I would also need the 1756-NET-AIC as well. The controlLogix will not have a program in it, all it is doing is just a gateway for the dh485 to ethernet 'conversion'. From this, we should be able to communicate to all PLC's via ethernet, yay.

It did not seem that far fetched considering this grocery list. A little more, but a lot better solution.

You are right though, money always wins.

RSL

Stephen Luft · Feb 25, 2013

Leeroy,

What file format are your part configurations? If they are .csv and you are open to considering another touch screen, you could incorporate the barcode reader and utilize the Ethernet port to connect back to Microsoft Access with one of the eMT3000 screens.

http://www.eternity-sales.com/KEP/MMI8000.htm

Depending on file size, you may be able to store your configurations in the touch screen or through the SD slot.

Please keep in mind this is a very brief observation based on the information provided.

Disclosure - ESI is a KEP distributor.

mflaugh · Feb 26, 2013

Is there some need to store the recipes in a PC? If not and if you are already putting a Controllogix as a gateway, why not use a Controllogix CPU to store the recipe data and have it transfer the recipes to the appropriate SLC? That would save you database development, OPC servers, etc. You could even scan the barcode into the serial port of the CPU.

Leeroy · Feb 26, 2013

I would consider upgrading the 5/03's to 5/05 units and get everything on ethernet. your 5000 unit would be the master and send data to the others. this would be more efficient communication wise over the 485 network.

i would then get an HMI package such as wonderware, RSView, Intellloution and import the data base into the recipe part of the software. May not be possible. Others may have a better idea.

as you scan in your part number, the data base would then que the order (or whatever your process is).

That wouldn't require a controllogix anymore. Will have to look into the HMI packages you talk about there. To clear things up, all the barcode is doing is basically making setup times on the lines easier, will be sending information like speeds, lengths, etc.

I noticed that the MicroLogix 1500 PLC has a built-in "Recipe" function that allows storing data for up to 256 Recipes in the PLC memory. See Chapter 22 of the MicroLogix 1200 & MicroLogix 1500 Instruction Set Reference Manual.

Interesting idea, looked into it and not only does it not support floating point numbers(could get around that), but it doesn't support strings as we do want to display some notes on the HMI.

I would upgrade the SLC 5/03's to 1747-AENT's

Gonna have to dip into the babysitting money on that one. Would have to convince some people to not only get the software for logix5000 but to purchase all the modules I had for our slc 5/03's (don't think slc modules are compatible with controllogix, correct me if I'm wrong), pretty big investment. As cool as it would be I doubt that would happen.

The setup we currently have quoted is about $6k, if we wanted to do this to another line the module 1756-DH485 does have two channels so far about an additional $2k, could incorporate this on another line. It's all about saving money unfortunately.

What file format are your part configurations? If they are .csv and you are open to considering another touch screen, you could incorporate the barcode reader and utilize the Ethernet port to connect back to Microsoft Access with one of the eMT3000 screens.

.rpt for part numbers, .accdb for the information in access.

Is there some need to store the recipes in a PC? If not and if you are already putting a Controllogix as a gateway, why not use a Controllogix CPU to store the recipe data and have it transfer the recipes to the appropriate SLC? That would save you database development, OPC servers, etc. You could even scan the barcode into the serial port of the CPU.

It all comes down to memory. Since I need strings, that takes about a lot of memory. I believe each string takes up 42 words of data so if I needed 2 of them and 200 recipes, that's over 16k of memory right there, that's more memory currently the slc's I have can even hold.

mflaugh · Feb 26, 2013

It all comes down to memory. Since I need strings, that takes about a lot of memory. I believe each string takes up 42 words of data so if I needed 2 of them and 200 recipes, that's over 16k of memory right there, that's more memory currently the slc's I have can even hold.

Sorry, I must not have explained myself well enough. I was suggesting storing the 16K of recipe data in a Controllogix CPU since you are already intending on using the Controllogix Rack. The Controllogix would then send the required recipe data to the individual SLCs as needed. The SLCs only see the minimum of data that the CLX serves out.

The CLX could also be attached to the barcode scanner and everything could be self contained.

Leeroy · Feb 26, 2013

Yes I understood what you suggested, just gave you my reason why I was leaning towards storing recipes in the PC. That is something I could do, how much memory do controllogix processors have? From what I recall I believe 32MB is one option.

mflaugh · Feb 26, 2013

The lowest version of a L6 processor (1756-L61) has 2MB of memory.

If you are intending on using a PC, I would recommend using Microsoft SQL Server Express (free). I currently use that to store our recipe data and use a FactoryTalk View application to read and download the data. I would think that there is a cheaper application to use to download though.

Lancie1 · Feb 26, 2013

Interesting idea, looked into it and not only does it not support floating point numbers(could get around that), but it doesn't support strings as we do want to display some notes on the HMI.

There is ONE (how many do you need?) MicroLogix 1500 CPU that does support both types, if it is Series C and later. The N-type word files in your Recipes could be simply indirect or indexed addresses to any String memory files needed in any particular recipe. Each Recipe record (or a line in each recipe) is stored in the MicroLogix 1500 as a string up to 80 characters long. The string file type is really why the ML 1764-LSP is needed for the Recipe Function. The Recipe storage is 80 characters x 256 = 20,480 string characters. If that is enough for your 200 recipes, then I think this could be made to work.

I am not saying the ML 1500 is the most desired solution, but maybe one that is within your budget and could be upgraded as funds allow. See attached MicroLogix File Type table.

MicroLogix 1200 & 1500 Supported File Types.jpg

Leeroy · Feb 26, 2013

If you are intending on using a PC, I would recommend using Microsoft SQL Server Express (free). I currently use that to store our recipe data and use a FactoryTalk View application to read and download the data. I would think that there is a cheaper application to use to download though.

My ab rep quoted me for FT transaction manager, that is one possibility but was wondering what else I could use.

Newbie question inbound! How can I check the firmware revision on a ml 1500 processor? I do have 1 (LSP-28BXB) but not sure what series it is. I will have to see if it has the memory for what I want, 20ish integers, 5ish floating points and 1 maybe 2 strings is what will be in each recipe.

Lancie1 · Feb 26, 2013

If you open your program in RSLogix, look in the menu tree for "Project, Controller, Controller Properties". For a MicroLogix 1500, it will show the Series letter in the Processor Type name.

PLC Recipe Control

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