HMI upgrade

Now, after receiving so much great assistance on this forum in regard to communicating and restoring the programming of a KEP MMI 200 with a GE 90/30plc, I am quite convinced it is in the best interest to upgrade the HMI with a display panel. You might call it a "modernization project".

Searching this forum, I see the topic of HMI selection is a well trodden path, so I have extracted the small Q&A that helps make responses less generic and probing.

I confess, ALL THIS PLC STUFF is new to me over the past few months. I have no history nor informed expectations. So "HELP" ;-)

The Application is a stand alone Vacuum coating tool. A machine of only 2 meters width, 2 meters height, and 2 meters depth. At about 800-100 kilos weight. A pair of pumps, four valves that must be sequenced correctly (pneumatic actuation), several electronic and electrical inputs and outputs. A drive motor (stepper) . A pair of pneumatic actuators. Manual and automatic sequencing and a few misc. functions.

There are generic processes to load, pump and vent the process chamber.

And then there are specifically defined coating processes ( an hand full) when the pump sequence is satisfied .
A key locked manual mode provides for operation of key mechanical actions without the logic controller sequences. So a key for every hardware function. The MMI-200 key operator was able to accomplish the tasks with only 24 keys.

What I would like to end up with is an operator panel that selected and displayed the process and progress. Displayed the location in any process sequence either by valve status or time past/ remaining.

The ability to monitor and control the panel from another location would be desirable. That is, the PLC is not on a network, but I would like the operator panel to be viewed remotely. Standing next to the machine to "check status" is a bit old fashioned ;-)

Below is the Q&A My entries follow the question contained between *___*

Do you need data logging ? To internal or removable media ? Do you want CSV files, or an SQL database, or something else ? *.csv files would be nice, I have an Agilent data logger fitted as part of process recording*

How frequently will the device be powered down ? PC's aren't as good as embedded devices at recovering after power outages. *daily*

Does the HMI need to be accessible over a network, like with a web browser or smartphone ? *wired , LAN*

Do you need to incorporate remote alarming, like with e-mail or text messaging ? *NO*

The more you can describe the requirements of your operator interface, the narrower the field of suggestions is going to get. *see intro paragraphs above*

[end quote]

I'm considering the KEP MMI6070H and the MMI 8070H (Weintek) or equal.

Ask any questions, I'm ready to purchase today! but might wait till tomorrow..;-)

Thanks in advance

Cal

Click to expand...

To duplicate and expand on the functionality of the KEP unit, look at the C-More from Automation Direct, or even the C-More Micro. They give you the ability to light a lot more than just 24 LEDs and respond to a lot more than 24 keys. Price range from a couple hundred dollars to a couple thousand.
http://www.automationdirect.com/adc/Shopping/Catalog/Operator_Interfaces

For significantly more capabilities, although at a higher price, look at the G3 series from Red Lion controls.
http://www.redlion.net/Products/HumanMachineInterface.html

If you want even more capabilities look at the Red Lion G3 series

Cal,

Depending upon how much of an upgrade you want to do, will depend on the selection of screen.

KEP offers a product in the MMI200 range (24 keys) but with either a two line (MMI220) or four line (MMI240) display. Information can be found through the following link:

http://www.eternity-sales.com/KEP/mmi.htm

The MMI selections are good and valid. However, if you want to go with the most current product, you will want to look at the eMT3070A. Information can be found through the following link:

http://www.eternity-sales.com/KEP/MMI8000.htm

If you have any questions, feel free to ask.

Disclosure - ESI is a KEP distributor.

Thanks for the responses.

As outlined in the original post, NO additional lights and keysa are needed. All present functions are satisfied within a 24 function key pad.

Additional features desired would be a graphical display that shows status at a glance. And connectivity of the PANEL for monitor and control at a remote location.

I have looked at the KEP site, and the Red Lion site. Most every display shown offers much more functionality that is needed.

An LCD reader would just not return the whiz bang fro the buck like a graphical touch screen might.

Stephen, In your response of "any questions", KEP what display would fit in the hole vacated by the MMI 200 and would be "simple" to program with the system aspects as described in my first post?

What benefits would there be to the purchase of a 24 function keypad/2 line reader for $470 vs a graphical display with ethernet connectivity in the MMI 8070 at $610.

Cal,

With regards to hole size. The MMI220 and MMI240 use the same case as the MMI200, so the PANEL CUTOUT: 7.1 (180.3) X 5.1 (129.5) would be the same.

The function keys are the same as well. Baseically, the only difference is that it doesn't have a display.

If you don't require an Ethernet port, then the MMI6070H would be sufficient for your application. The primary advantage of a touch screen over an alpha numeric display is the flexibility. You can do more with the graphics and are not limited by physical hardware. You can do different types of buttons, selector, slide, toggle, etc... You can have multiple screens arranged in any manner you want. You can tie your I/O to LED indicator graphics in the screen to show the operator I/O status. You can create alarm indicators. There is much more that can be done, but it sounds like you won't require all that functionality. However, knowing it is there can assist you for later machine modifications.

The Ethernet connectivity for the MMI8070H is only $60.00 more than the MMI6070H

Both screens (MMI220/240 vs. MMI6070H/8070H) offer their own programming software that can be downloaded from our web site and offer an incorporated help file.

For the touch screen, the panel cutout is 7.59" x 5.433", so there will need to be a bit of trimming done to make this screen fit.

FYI, we do offer a bit of a discount off these screens when purchasing through us.

Let me know if you have any other questions. You can email me through the link in my signature.

Stephen you offer this comment.

If you don't require an Ethernet port, then the MMI6070H would be sufficient for your application. [end quote]

In my preceding post I described the requirement with

Additional features desired would be a graphical display that shows status at a glance. And connectivity of the PANEL for monitor and control at a remote location. [end quote

How can one remotely monitor the panel without the ethernet port? Are there alternative schemes and protocols available other than TCP/IP?

Your comments are appreciated!

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Cal,

If you wanted to, it could be done via RS485. RS485 can transmit up to 4000 feet. (RS232 is limited to 50 feet) Much will depend upon where the display is and where the PC is that you are connecting. However if you have Ethernet available, then that would be a better way to go.

If you require any industrial Ethernet related products, we have those as well.

Let me try to phrase my question as simply as I can think of it.

Can the MMI6070H panel without ethernet port be used to control the machine while mounted on the machine and ALSO have a a PC perform the same monitor and control functions in the office adjacent to the lab?
I know I can mount the HMI anywhere that rs485 cables will reach.

Can remote operation be done with the MMI8070H? via a protocol other than TCP/IP.
I am not looking to add "industrial hardware". A PLC as a stand alone system interfaced with a HMI that is capable of "Remote desktop" operation is what I am looking for.

remote desk top to me follows this description from wikipedia:

In computing, the term remote desktop refers to a software or operating system feature that allows a personal computer's desktop environment to be run remotely on one system (usually a PC, but the concept applies equally to a server), while being displayed on a separate client device.

I apologize it my questions are convoluted. I only am aware of enough to be dangerous ;-)

Brian at KEP suggested ESI as a good source!

If you plan on upgrading to Machine Edition, to better support the 90-30 on Windows 7...
My suggestion would be a GE Quick Panel. You can configure/test them with Machine Edition.

NN

I have no intent to up grade from LM90 or even move to Windoz 7 if I don't need to. I rather enjoy Linux, and only use the MS products "When I must".

I have Machine Edition as the four day trial, but do not see it as advantage for what I need to do. I do not plan to become a logic programing professional, though I do intend to carry my understanding to a "high enough" level. I just pray I do not need to move across platforms, even if there is an RSLogic application looming..... I hope it is just a shadow ;-)

I will remember your advice if these changes become part of the effort!

regards

Cal

Cal,

First, if you have talked with Brian about these questions, then I would defer to his information.

In considering your last post, the software does include an online simulator that allows you to view the touch screen program. Whether it would work for what you are looking to do, I would have a conversation with Brian.

Remote monitoring can be done through the MMI8070H via the Ethernet port. What I mean here is that information can be transmitted through the Ethernet port to another device that supports and Ethernet connection.

As mentioned earlier, I would run all of this by Brian prior to making the commitment to purchase.

Micky Thank you for the reply

Mickey said:

http://www.plctalk.net/qanda/showpost.php?p=520869&postcount=4

Click to expand...

If you will scroll up to the original post, you will see that a cut and paste of this very page is in the body of the post.

A spring board for exchange and discussion.

Alas... reading all the posts is difficult..perhaps it is my writing style. I tend to think in circles.

regards

Cal