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testsubject
March 25th, 2004, 11:04 AM
Has anyone recipe storage with a Panelview or Panelview Plus? Is this the best way to maintain recipes? What are the pros and cons? What would be the limit to the datapoints per recipe?

Thanks,

Bob

Gerry
March 25th, 2004, 06:58 PM
You can't store data in a PanelView. If you store recipe data in the PLC, you can manipulate it from the PanelView. This approach is problematic, though, since it is very easy to lose the data by downloading an archive program file. If you want to combine HMI with data storage, use a PC with RSView or similar.

testsubject
March 26th, 2004, 09:19 AM
I'm a bit confused then. According to the catalog featuring the PanelView Plus, it states that it can record up to 3 million values either locally or remotely for data logging. Is not this also available for recipe storage? What does this mean in real world terms?

msinclair
March 26th, 2004, 09:32 AM
I haven't had a chance to play with the new PanelView Plus line, but on the older PanelView and PanelView E lines, Gerry is absolutely correct.

Marc

craigsimon
March 26th, 2004, 11:25 AM
The Panelview Plus is different then the older Panelviews. The Panelview plus is more of a computer running CE and RSView. you can not use the Panelbuilder software to program a Panelview Plus. Check out AB's web site to learn more.
http://www.ab.com/eoi/graphicterminals/panelview_plus/index.html

testsubject
March 26th, 2004, 12:29 PM
I have already looked at that webpage and I have a copy of A/B's "The View" but the info in them is rather lean. Maybe if I describe how I plan on using it you could tell me if it is doable.

I want to be able to make modifications to various words, double words and bits that will make up one recipe (around 50 items/recipe). I want to be able to save them and recall them when needed. I also need to be able to update an existing recipe to reflect changes made to it after it has been recalled. This also needs to be protected from being completely overwritten if the PLC program needs to be updated in the field so that the customer will not have to rekey in all the data again. This also holds true for the Touch Panel. The data cannot be overwritten by programming updates. I will need to be able to store between 50-200 recipes. I want to be able to scroll through the existing recipes or be able to key in one to select it.

Is this possible with the Panelview?

TIA,

Bob

Allen Nelson
March 26th, 2004, 02:41 PM
Is this possible with a Panelview?

No.**

On a panelview screen, you have a tag which is associated with a PLC address. In order for that tag to have a new value, something has to execute to change that value.

Operator interactions can change that value. But a change in the value of one tag won't change the value in other.

You need some kind of database, and a some kind of ODBC transfer of selected data from the database to the Panelview tags using SQL calls.

The classic Panelviews definitely do not do this. From what I can tell, the Panelview Plus / RSView ME program does not support this either. I haven't yet worked with Panelview Plus, and I don't have ME loaded on my PC, but I'm pretty sure (looking at the literature) that it can't. It DOES have the capablity of using Parameters ("re-using a single screen with multiple sets of data"), but if that's like RSView, that's just a tag-substituion scheme. You won't be able to change the DEFAULT data of a tag, which is what you are after. (if you don't change the default value, then loosing power to the panelview will wipe out your stored recipes).



**So here's how you can do it - in the PLC. The Panelview recipe selector is a tag that sets a pointer in the PLC. The PLC uses indirect addressing to access the data associated with that recipe, and copy it to a "working recipe" and/or and "editting recipe" buffer. The panelview tags look only at the "working recipe" buffer. So when you select a new recipe, the data the PLC will use is in that buffer, and the panelview shows those values. The panelview can edit those registers, and a SAVE button activates code that copies those registers back to the indirect address saved locations.

50-200 recipes is quite a few. What's going to make or break you in being able to do this is how many data points you have in a recipe. If it's only 20-30, then this can be done in a SLC, no problem. If there's hundreds of setpoints, then you'll have to explore a Controllogix or PLC-5 with lots of memory.

Good luck

Mark Buskell
March 26th, 2004, 03:38 PM
Allen is correct about having to do indirect addressing for a normal PanelView. What you you have to do is send an integer (recipe #) to the SLC and then have the SLC use indirect addressing to load the recipe. With a little work you can add a recipe screen to the PanelView that will allow you to edit the recipes. I use indirect addressing to load up to 100 recipes with no problem.

Mark
esystemsusa.com

testsubject
March 28th, 2004, 02:42 PM
I guess my next question would be what about the Panelview Plus?

I guess I wasn't specific enough. I am really more interested in the PV+ than the Standard PV. I have had an AB salesman in my plant recently and he is trying to convince me that what I want to do is possible with the PV+.

I am hoping for some less biased responses. Hence, the forum.

I realize this may seem anal but I want to make sure that I am crystal clear when I confront him.

Thanks,

Bob

Bitmore
March 28th, 2004, 04:55 PM
A Bitmore information on Panelview and PV+ and Windows CE. Long has all of these devices worked on the CE platform, but you get what you pay for.. When you buy a Versa-View from A-B it is on the windows CE platform as is the PanelView+, the difference is the amount of user control that is available and of course the local resources.
I recently powered up a brand new "out 'o the box" versa view and it informed me it could not find the resources to activate the panelview process. Internally the firmware card was the wrong one and I contacted AB and got a replacement.
So the lesson to be learned here is... so what if it is so smart and works on the "Xtra" special platform. If it ain't made to work that way it won't. Oh yes, and also no recipe storage in panelviews.

bitmore

Bitmore
March 28th, 2004, 05:14 PM
Depending on which PLC you are to perform this recipe function please be aware that the recipe data is stored in PLC memory not the PanalView or PanelView+ no matter how smart, they just weren't designed to store that type of data "out of the box". The PLC stores the data and it is usually accessed through the indexed addressing function as described above, but simple compare statements work to.... as in
if menu.pointer = 1 then data offset = 10
if menu.pointer = 2 then data offset = next menu starting offset

you get the idea....

bitmore

dash
March 28th, 2004, 05:26 PM
Where the salesman may be confused is that Rockwell has stated several times that it is going to include the BASIC recipe ActiveX control from RSView32 for RSView ME, but since ME mainly runs on CE the ActiveX needs to be rewritten (it will work if you are running the ME runtime on W2K or XP). It was supposedly going to make the 3.1 release that came out about two months ago, but from the tech notes it did not make it. Also upgrading from 3.0 to 3.1 (along the lines of the ControlLogix software/firmware upgrades of old) turned out to be pain in the butt so I have not gotten to install it yet. Maybe we will see that feature in the 4.0 release of ME, but as everyone else has allready stated it is not currently available. If you are using a ControlLogix it would be easy using UDTs to manage recipes in the PLC. If you are using one of the older PLC-5/SLCs it can still be done, just slightly more difficult.

Also if these recipe settings are critical you will need to backup the PLC processor on a regular basis to protect from memory loss in the controller.

Darren

Gerry
March 28th, 2004, 06:00 PM
I have had an AB salesman in my plant recently and he is trying to convince me that what I want to do is possible with the PV+.
Ask him to demonstrate!

It may be possible using local tags and parameter files and macros - but what a kluge! And the PV+ may well choke on the 10,000 + tags and the rest.

Then there's the question of backup. Ideally, this should be a simple and painless task that an operator can do. Going the PV/PV+ route will require YOU(?) connecting to either the PLC or PV with a PC running special software and doing an upload.

testsubject
March 28th, 2004, 06:39 PM
Thanks to all who posted. The spec sheet is a little misleading then. It states that the PV+ can datalog over 3 million datapoints. This sounds like it can be stored in the PV+.

I understand how to do indirect addressing. In the AutomationDirect PLC this is called the pointer method.

I was thinking of using the PV+ to replace the EZTouch Touch Panel only because it could possibly do the data storing that I wanted.

Looks like it is back to the drawing board...

Gerry
March 28th, 2004, 07:13 PM
The spec sheet is a little misleading then. It states that the PV+ can datalog over 3 million datapoints. This sounds like it can be stored in the PV+.
The log is stored in the PV+. But, just like the alarm history that is also stored in the PV+, there's only so much you can do with it. The memory that they use isn't generally accessible to the RSViewME application.

Bitmore
March 28th, 2004, 07:53 PM
It states that the PV+ can datalog over 3 million datapoints. This sounds like it can be stored in the PV+.

Yup, and you want more data, remember they only state facts, datalogging is not recipe storage.

ckchew666
August 31st, 2004, 10:41 PM
So inorder for us to do recipe, the best solution is to use RSView ME install in Win2k?

Bitmore
August 31st, 2004, 11:22 PM
No, you missed my point. You are able to do anything you want. Recipe function is available with the software package. If you don't care to use their package I for one, can demonstrate different options, as I am sure others on this forum could. I just wanted you to know that recipe lookups are available with some (most) canned software. In my opinion it's not that hard to implement yourself. As for data logging now your talking a different animal. Rockwell offerings are quite limited! You can log more data in the PLC with less requirements for storage than any HMI or SCADA software, simply because you don't deal with another "program". I am sure there will be allot of controversy about what I just said, bring it on! Mind you there are some limits when SCADA or RS in doing a better job I wrote a PLC program that logged data for a year, in the PLC memory ram! You figure out the ramifications of that..and adjust your ideas for the specifications of the project. I'm not your customer.

Bitmore