FactoryTalk MER vs APA - Round 1

I'm just posting to get peoples thoughts on MER's vs APA this day and age (I am only referring to 5.0 and greater)...

Since it was allowed, we have always allowed our MER's to be converted back to editable applications. We get customers that insist on getting an APA from us, we always tell them that the MER is sufficient as it is compiled with the entire application, they still insist on getting the APA from us and get mad at us for not giving them what they want the first time. We end up restoring the MER, then creating the APA and sending it to them.

I'm sure there are some here that also insist on having an APA, if so why? Have you ran into issues with using the MER?

We have been strictly using the MER since it was allowed and we have not experienced anything that is not common to the APA. I have yet to have a customer come up with a rational reason to need the APA. It's always been: "We've had issues", never anything specific. I'm all ears though...

I have seen corrupted/missing parameter files, macros, and message files after MER restores. I'd say it is fairly infrequent, but it can really ruin your day when it comes back to bite you several days (or weeks) after making a change.

That being said, we use MERs only here, so I can't say if using APAs would behave any differently or not. I have heard a lot of the same superstitious stuff about APAs and MERs, but have yet to see or read anything scientific.

I'm running Studio 6.1 on Windows 7 64 bit and when creating runtimes there is no option to restore mer previous to 6.1, something must have changed with the 64 bit version

I have uploaded a runtime, restored, made changes, compiled, then downloaded and somewhere in the middle something got corrupt. What fixed most of the problems was making sure I had the latest patch rollup installed. I have not seen any issues with v7.

I tend to use the latest software version and my customers don't. So, what I normally do is after completion, I use their box to upload the mer, restore, and then backup. If I didn't do that then the apa I gave them would be useless unless they had the latest software.

I don't like using Studio on x64 machines, it is horrible. Especially the silly legacy tag database conversion thing.

bmacattack33 said:

I have seen corrupted/missing parameter files, macros, and message files after MER restores. I'd say it is fairly infrequent, but it can really ruin your day when it comes back to bite you several days (or weeks) after making a change.

That being said, we use MERs only here, so I can't say if using APAs would behave any differently or not. I have heard a lot of the same superstitious stuff about APAs and MERs, but have yet to see or read anything scientific.

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I've seen the same thing with corrupt parameter fields and such from restoring from a .MER This was back with 5.0 so I would hope those have been sorted out since. Given the issues you can have with RSView ME (32/64 bit thing) I think you're better office providing the APA and not bothering with the fight. It's a file, save yourself breath of the conversation and move on I say.

The customer is right. I've also seen problems with the password feature when restoring MERs. I supply the true APAs to avoid any complaints.

Panelview is a bag of rusty nuts & bolts, it's RSView32 re-vamped difficult to copy the applications, falls over, does not work if you delete some of the examples, can take an age to get the hmi to boot into run mode from power up if re-loaded from Mem card, have to use the inbuilt file manager to archive, falls over frequently I could go on I have replaced nearly all our PV's both 550's & PV600+ with E1000 series at a lower cost, all colour work a treat easy to program (software only costs £100) has dual driver capability and so far found them more reliable etc.

jstolaruk said:

The customer is right. I've also seen problems with the password feature when restoring MERs. I supply the true APAs to avoid any complaints.

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See we have had those problems as well when restoring and not selecting "include the local directory". The accounts are lost if the person restoring chooses the default option and does not already have the accounts on their machine. The accounts end up with a crazy looking string in the security settings.

The same is true with APA's.

We give them the APA's when they ask.

If parameter file's are for certain an issue when restoring via MER, then I understand why they would ask. Since we don't use any parameter files, then I would never experience that issue. It would legitimize requesting APA's.

Paully's5.0 said:

It's a file, save yourself breath of the conversation and move on I say.

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Here, here.

Just give them it from the outset and, as advised above, make sure it's usable with their FTVME version.

I had to make a small mod to a PV+600 on one of our machines a couple of months ago, but I couldn't find the backup *.MER or *.APA files anywhere? I couldn't stop the machine at the time to do an upload, so I emailed the OEM and they sent me the *.APA file no questions asked. They had also supplied it originally without any hassle.

If they say they are having "issues" and don't want to elaborate with you, then they are not asking you to fix it, so don't waste your time wondering why, just send it. Your not protecting the applications anyway, so it's only the small inconvenience of your time to send it. It also promotes good will between you and your clients.

I'm sure with all the possible software/hardware configurations out there, some may experience anomalies from time to time while restoring an *.MED file from an *.MER file.
I usually always have the *.APA files to restore from, so I haven't used an *.MER for some time.

However, this evening I tried restore from a *.MER file, of which I also have the *.APA file, and everything went fine. Except the comms path was lost to the processor in RSLinx Enterprise. I then restored from the *.APA and the path was intact. I carried out the same test with another *.MER file and this time the path was not lost.

Anomalies...we all hate them, but if they're someone elses headache, why make them yours?

G.