2x PV+700 communicating with SLC5/04. Options?

I am in the envious position of needing to replace two ancient lauer 900 pcs units with 2 PV+700s.

The current system of communication is SLC5/04 RS-232 Port (Using DH485 protocol) into a 1747-PIC coming out as RS-485 and the cable is then commoned to both HMI's RS-485 port.

The PV+700 does not support RS-485 and there is no add-on board for this, Rockwell tell me they are dumping RS-485 as fast as they can and one can hardly blame them for this.

I have been advised that 1761-NET-AIC+ is the way to go.

There are a few snags in cable lengths, the 2 HMI are too far from the SLC5/04 for RS-232, and the 2 HMI are too far apart from each other for RS-232.

If the AIC+ were viable, I would need 1 per HMI and 1 at the PLC, all 3 would talk to each other using RS-485, with a short RS-232 spur to each AIC+'s relevant device.

I have been told by Rockwell support, that the 1747-PIC at the PLC to convert RS-232 to RS-485 is entirely non-standard, ill advised and not supported. In fact, they keep pointing it out. Thanks for that guys.

So I guess I am wondering if 3x NET-AIC+ linked to each other with RS-485, each with it's own RS-232 line to a device, is actually viable. Rockwell have, on one occasion said, "Yes, it's your only option" and on another occasion said "No, this can never work, your only option is 1767-NET-ENI"

Let us pretend that the consensus is "Yes, 3x Net-AIC+ does work", what configuration for the PV+ comms driver would be needed? I have 3 I could apparently choose, DF1, DH-485 and Serial-DH485.
DH-485 seems like a non-starter because it does not seem to ask what port it would use and the literature suggests it would be used for a RN6 add-on board anyway.
DF1 seems like a non-starter because I am told by Rockwell and other posts on this board that you can only use node "1" in a PV+, therefore you could not have 2x HMI on the network as they could never be distinguished from each other by the SLC 5/04.
This leaves "Serial-DH485" which seems to look about right in terms of options and config settings, but I don't actually have it functioning yet which I believe to be a cabling error I have yet to resolve.

Let us suppose that AIC+ can never work, looking at the literature for the NET-ENI RS-232<>Ethernet coupler, it seems that DF1 would be used at the SLC 5/04 and the coupler uses the 0-49 node address in the manner 192.168.0.DF1NodeAddress for ip addresses. Seems easy enough.

I guess my actual real question is, having already bought 2 AIC+ modules is what communication drivers are applicable in the PV+ configuration, and if none are, will the NET-ENI work instead?

Great board by the way. Wish something like this had been around last time I looked at any of this controls systems nonsense ten years ago.

How about swapping the SLC5/04 for an SLC5/05 ?
You then have an all-ethernet solution with all the benefits that gives. No need for special hardware or anything. The SLC5/05 CPU is a bit expensive, but if you factor in the time you would elsewise have to use to implement a complex cludge, maybe it isnt more expensive.

Welcome to the Forum!
Forget serial DH485...
SLC 5/04s have built in DH+ ports; add a 2711P-RN6/RN6k (DH+/RIO) communication module option on the PV+ terminals and run a "blue-hose" daisy chain between the CPU and terminals.

JesperMP said:

How about swapping the SLC5/04 for an SLC5/05 ?

Click to expand...

Yes, I should have mentioned I have considered this on the recommendation of Rockwell, I did actually regard this as my preferred option. Sadly it seems I will not get my way until all other options have been exhausted. <Snip my standard rant about pen pushing bean counters who are unable to work out that the easiest option is usually cheapest despite higher purchasing costs.>

Branded said:

<Snip my standard rant about pen pushing bean counters who are unable to work out that the easiest option is usually cheapest despite higher purchasing costs.>

Click to expand...

Ugh, I know your pain! Pay now or pay later.

maybe dmargineau has the 2nd best solution. Buy a DH+ adapter for the PanelView's (assuming that they are available for the new 700+'s) and communicate over the 5/04's DH+ port.

Branded said:

<Snip my standard rant about pen pushing bean counters who are unable to work out that the easiest option is usually cheapest despite higher purchasing costs.>

Click to expand...

Ugh, I know your pain! Pay now or pay later.

maybe dmargineau has the 2nd best solution. Buy a DH+ adapter for the PanelView's (assuming that they are available for the new 700+'s) and communicate over the 5/04's DH+ port.

dmroeder said:

maybe dmargineau has the 2nd best solution. Buy a DH+ adapter for the PanelView's (assuming that they are available for the new 700+'s) and communicate over the 5/04's DH+ port.

Click to expand...

As I look into this, the plot thickens.

This being a manual that describes certain add-on modules for use with PV+ 700 amongst other things.
http://literature.rockwellautomation.com/idc/groups/literature/documents/in/2711p-in003_-en-p.pdf

It seems an add-on module is required for using DH485 at all, and further to this, in the absence of any images in that manual, google images shows the communication wiring of the RN6 module to be phoenix connectors. 3 pin for DH+ as I'd expect. 6-pin for DH485 which is rather a clue that the DH485 comms would be over RS-485 physically although rockwell promised me there is no rs-485 abilities so maybe they are using 3 of the 6 pins only for rs-232 or something I just don't know.


http://www.ab.com/en/epub/catalogs/.../1670480/10791114/12293528/Communication.html

And then this page suggests that the RS-232 port handles DH485-Serial protocol just fine, so why would anybody need a DH485 add-on board unless it was specifically to add RS-485 (which rockwell say it doesn't)

I'm told I may be getting a visit from some sort of roving technical assistant tomorrow so maybe this will all go away in a flood of knowledge combined with the problem solving power that only a van chockbang full of known working spare parts can impart.

The issue here is (probably avoided to be mentioned by RA TechSupport) the PanelView Plus family HMI terminals native data server agent, RSLinx Enterprise, utility which cannot be deployed within legacy (PLC/SLC) control platforms.
That's where the 2711P-RN6 communications option comes into place, since it is the "dedicated interpreter" between Linx Enterprise and the legacy controller firmware.

This is now resolved.
Each PV+700 communicates with the SLC5/04 using "Serial" DH485 protocol through its own internal RS-232 port.

The cable from the PV+ to it's AIC+ is a cable to which I do not know the part number, but it is [female 9way d-type] to a [female 9way d-type] pins 2<>2, 3<>3, 5<>5

The cable from the SLC5/04 is part number 1761-CBL-PM02 to the din RS232 plug.

The 3 AIC+ are connected with belden cable in accordance with RS-483 wiring.

The part where my troubles originated was the cable to the PV+ from the AIC+ was entirely incorrect.
Additionally to facilitate getting all this diagnosed, I was forced to revert to Windows XP SP2 version of the comms driver. Inside the com1 entry in the System Hardware Manager there is an option to "Roll back to earlier version". I didn't need to regrade my entire machine to SP2.

Thanks for the helps and pointers especially the Windows XP problems.

I wanted to revisit this topic because there was a bit of misinformation about the "Serial-DH485" driver in RSLinx Enterprise.

This driver definitely does work on all PanelView Plus terminals, both the original v3-v5 hardware and the modern v6 hardware.

It definitely does use DH485 protocol over RS-232 to connect directly to SLC-500 or MicroLogix controllers whose RS-232 serial ports are configured for DH485 protocol.

As described by the OP, it also works when connected to 1761-NET-AIC isolators and an classic DH-485 network.

You don't need a 2711P-RN6 module unless you need to run native DH485 (the 3-conductor RS-485 network native to old SLC-5/01-2-3 controllers) on a PV+700-1500 terminal.

The older PanelView Plus 400/600 terminals (up to v5.10 firmware) had the ability to add optional communication cards on the back. The modern "PanelView Plus 6" 600 terminals with v6.10 and v7 firmware do not have that expansion module plug on the back, and only support Ethernet and RS-232.


I have a brand new 2711P-T6C20D8 on my desk, built in May 2013 and shipped with version 6.10 firmware, connected with a straight-through RS-232 serial cable to a ControlLogix with the serial port configured for "DH485-Serial".