Advanced Bottle Line Excersise!?!

Jonny Rev · Apr 16, 2004

If anyone has messed with thelearningpit's LogixPro simulator, I would love to chat with them.... If nobody has delt with the LogixPro simulator,,, HA HA HA HA I would love for one of you PROS!! to download this from www.thelearningpit.com and fly through the bottle simulator excersises for me,, Because poor me is just a beginner,, I've only been doing PLC's for about 6 months and I'm sure most everyone that read's this can program a lot better than I!! Anywho,, if someone checks it out,,, I'm attempting to do the Advanced Bottle Line Excersise, and I'm stumped!!

Anyone who is new to LogixPro,, I find that this is and EXCELLENT way for beginners to learn how to use ladder logix and be able to program equipment without ANY major damage when you make a mistake!!!! <<< was a major plus for me!!! So,, Check it out,,, and please give me some feedback!?!!

Steve House · Apr 17, 2004

Mr. Rev!!

Hey Jonny,

I've downloaded the 15 free day trial on the PLC LogixPro that you were talking about, and it's quite interesting... I didn't buy the full version so I can't help you on your bottle simulation problem until I do... But thanks for the addy on the free simulations! If I have any questions, be ready for a memory jog!

Jonny Rev · Apr 17, 2004

getter done

Steve

I got the bottles to go where I need them with the control bits. Only now I have a problem when they grind up the broken bottles and put them into the boxes, I can't figure a correct calculation for box fill?????

Signed,
once again, stumped

skalt · Apr 17, 2004

dandrade · Apr 18, 2004

One push, help

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Lancie1 · Apr 20, 2004

Jonny Rev,

Last night I borrowed a copy of the LogixPro disk and ran through the Bottle Line Simulation. You cannot control the Scrap Box Fill very accurately using only one Counter. The bottles are two different sizes, with the Large Bottle being equal to 1.5 times the mass volume of the Small Bottles. The Scrap Box will hold the equivalent of 15.5 Small Bottles.... Does this give you an idea of what you need to do next?

In my program, I used two counters, Small and Large Broken Bottle Counters. Then I used some math functions to calculate the Combined Box Fill = (15 x Large Count) + (10 x Small Count). The extra factor of 10 is to eliminate fractional numbers in an Integer-only PLC.

Then for the Scrap Conveyor Motor, I set up parallel comparison instructions: IF COMBINED BOX FILL >= 145 AND NEXT BROKEN BOTTLE IS LARGE, OR IF COMBINED BOX FILL >=150; THEN START SCRAP CONVEYOR.
The logic for the above is if the next broken bottle is Large, then its volume = 15 and will not fit into a box with level of 145 already, since full = 155. Then if the level = 150, a small bottle will not fit either. I leave it to the student to set up a bit that anticipates the next broken bottle BEFORE IT ARRIVES AT THE SCRAP GATE.

This method will fill the box 100% about 95% of the time, and within 95% the remainder. Note that you can "skip" some broken bottles if the box does not have room...(no instructions to the contrary in the guidelines)!!

For more help, click on the "HELP" menu at the top of your screen, then select "Student Exercises", then "Bottle Line Simulation - Applying Bit Shift Instructions". The author actually gives you several of the program rungs to get you started.

Joseca · Feb 4, 2015

In bottle line logixpro. Did you ever make exercise 4 and 5 boxing and filling work correctly when put together. my programs work fine separate but when joined they do not
thanks JC

dlweber · Feb 4, 2015

This post is almost eleven years old, with the exception of the last two posters it does not look like the people that posted are active on the website anymore.

However I did this in college about 1.5 years ago, I do not remember what all my instructor had us do but I can look to see if I still have the old files, and if I can open them.

To get the attention of more people I would start your own thread with your specific issue

Lancie1 · Feb 4, 2015

In bottle line LogixPro: Did you ever make exercise 4 and 5 boxing and filling work correctly when put together?

Yes, I did make the Advanced Exercise work satisfactorily. For Exercise 4 Filling & Capping, my first version uses 2 timers. That allows the bottle line to run at about 70% "scan speed". My second version eliminates the timers and allows the speed to be set anywhere between 1 and 60% without breakage. The possible scan speed varies with the speed of the computer that you are using.

Exercise 6 is where you swap the 3 BSL instructions for 2 BSR instructions. Exercise 5 is making a subroutine for tracking and displaying the production numbers. Exercise 5 really has nothing much to do with capping the bottles (programmed in Exercise 4), or boxing the scrap (which should have been handled in Exercise 3). I have solutions for all 6 Bottle Line exercises, if you want to discuss them farther.

There should be no problem putting the different exercises together- if you use the proper foundation for each successive step. If one step uses logic that is not compatible with the next step, then you will have to start over and find logic that works together. In doing these exercises, I found it useful to read the last one first, then work backward so that my first exercise uses a method that can be carried through all the way to the end. In other words, plan your logic outline the same way you have to for a real project.

The key for all 6 exercises is to use the encoder pulse (the I:1/6 "LS1 Exists" bit) to control every step.

Go to the "Downloads" section, and look under Allen Bradley for some LogixPro Bottle Line solutions.

Joseca · Feb 5, 2015

I wrote a hole page the tried to send it but not permite replay

Joseca · Feb 5, 2015

Anyway I said thanks for your time and knowlege sharing before anything else.

You are right about, exerc. 3, and 4. These are the ones I was talking about it. I used 3 more BSL instructions for the filling exerc.#4. these were to enable the large and small brokens, small and large brokens, and cap ram. plus regular bit instructions with [OSR].
Now for #3 I used counters and word compare, of course with the BSL instructions. My question is if perhaps using [OSR] instructions somehow conflits the performace of the program when running.
By the way if you go on line with thelearningpit.com you may see some upgrades to some of the labs. Bottle line for instance has the 7 display segment for exerc. 5, of course unless you are checking it from time to time.
I can send you my prog. files if you still have the logix sofware and don't mine to look at them.
I still working on 5,6 as well as get familiar with this site on dowloading nand uploading files.

Once again thank you.

Lancie1 · Feb 6, 2015

I used 3 more BSL instructions for the filling exerc.#4. These were to enable the large and small unbrokens, small and large broken bottles, and cap ram, plus regular bit instructions with [OSR].

You should use only 3 BSL instructions for the entire program. Any more BSLs will only confuse you and make it more difficult. Each BSL and BSR can show 2 bits of information for EACH bottle. Here is the way to use your 3 BSL instructions:

BSL for File #B3:2 = Bottle Positions on the Conveyor (0 = no bottle, 1 = bottle at that bit position);
BSL for File #B3:4 = Large/Small Bottles (0 = Small, 1 = Large);
BSL for File #B3:6 = Unbroken/Broken Bottles (0 = Not Broken, 1 = Broken)

With combinations of these 3 BSLs, you can determine the status of any bottle at any position on the conveyor. For example if you want to know if a Large, Unbroken bottle is at the Diverter Gate, you could use this rung:

|        O:2/1         I:1/6               B3:5/5           B3:7/3             O:2/5    |

|---------| |------------| |-----------------| |--------------|/|---------------( )-----|

|  RUN Indicator    LS1- Encoder       Large at Diverter   Not Broken          Diverter |

|

You do not need any OSR instructions (0 OSRs) for this program for Exercises 1 to 6.

I can send you my program files if you still have the LogixPro software, and don't mind to look at them.

Yes, I have the LogixPro software on a CD disk that is 10 years old, so it is the original version, not the updated version.

You may ZIP (compress with WinZip or similar program) and post your programs on PLCtalk.net, in your Bottle Line thread:
http://www.plctalk.net/qanda/showthread.php?t=93044

Joseca · Feb 9, 2015

Lancie1 said:
You should use only 3 BSL instructions for the entire program. Any more BSLs will only confuse you and make it more difficult. Each BSL and BSR can show 2 bits of information for EACH bottle. Here is the way to use your 3 BSL instructions:

BSL for File #B3:2 = Bottle Positions on the Conveyor (0 = no bottle, 1 = bottle at that bit position);
BSL for File #B3:4 = Large/Small Bottles (0 = Small, 1 = Large);
BSL for File #B3:6 = Unbroken/Broken Bottles (0 = Not Broken, 1 = Broken)

With combinations of these 3 BSLs, you can determine the status of any bottle at any position on the conveyor. For example if you want to know if a Large, Unbroken bottle is at the Diverter Gate, you could use this rung:

| O:2/1 I:1/6 B3:5/5 B3:7/3 O:2/5 |
|---------| |------------| |-----------------| |--------------|/|---------------( )-----|
| RUN Indicator LS1- Encoder Large at Diverter Not Broken Diverter |
|

You do not need any OSR instructions (0 OSRs) for this program for Exercises 1 to 6.

Yes, I have the LogixPro software on a CD disk that is 10 years old, so it is the original version, not the updated version.

You may ZIP (compress with WinZip or similar program) and post your programs on PLCtalk.net, in your Bottle Line thread:
http://www.plctalk.net/qanda/showthread.php?t=93044

I tried to post, but still do not see the link. How can I post mi entire LogixPro file in the AB down loads.

jrwb4gbm · Feb 9, 2015

Joseca said:
I tried to post, but still do not see the link. How can I post mi entire LogixPro file in the AB down loads.

See the other thread you started.

Advanced Bottle Line Excersise!?!

Jonny Rev

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Steve House

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Jonny Rev

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skalt

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dandrade

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Lancie1

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Joseca

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dlweber

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Lancie1

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Joseca

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Joseca

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Lancie1

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Joseca

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jrwb4gbm

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