Ethernet on safety PLC

Firstly, let me apologise if my terminology is a bit raw. I'm not an engineer. Just a garden variety industrial sparky trying to get the best out of the small plant I'm responsible for maintaining. We're part of a much larger organisation, but I don't get much engineering support.

I've got data acquisition software which has been invaluable in fault finding on the other PLC's we've got connected to the server. But it requires ethernet. (don't suggest routing).

We've got 6 PLC's. One was already connected when I got here. 2 others were already connected to the network switch and had IP dedicated to their MAC addresses. I was able to get our engineering group to make the connection to the data acquisition server.

Another two I was able to get set up when we had a contract engineer on loan for free (long story). Brilliant Russian guy with not much English. Unbeknownst to me these two S7-300 units had Ethernet (Profinet???) ports available. There were some ethernet cables that had been installed for another purpose but not used, and it was a simple matter to plug them in, get the IT dept, to give me some IP addresses, and my Russian friend connected them.

Then there's the safety PLC. No ethernet port or card of any type available, and no space on the rack. The two possibilities I'm looking for advice on -

1)is moving the power supply elsewhere in the panel, to give me the room to install the ethernet card.

2) Is there a CPU equivalent of the current unit that will have a port built in (317-6F03-0AB0). And yes, we use both the MPI/DP ports on the current card.

Yes
There is a 317F 6ES7 317-2FK14-0AB0 with profinet but only 1 mpi/dp port

The 319F has 3 ports PN/MPI and DP
6ES7 318-3FL01-0AB0
But its a little wider width

Looking at the picture of the 318-3FL01-0AB0, it appears the same size as the current module. I know the existing one has actually been superceded by a narrower unit (unless the pics on the Siemens website are lying to me).

According to the datasheet of that module, Global data communication is not possible, which rules it out!

Been a while but I believe you can move the S7 power supply
it uses the L & M connections via terminal bridges.
I think they can be hard wired....

PS
dont knock the old Industrial electricians
we do REAL work - not just wire jerking

Wilso said:

According to the datasheet of that module, Global data communication is not possible, which rules it out!

Click to expand...

Im not seeing that- show me the spec because it will set up
(but I don't have 2 319's to try)

The PSU does not make any difference. Its pressence in the HW configuration has no consequences as far as I know. So that is not the way to go.
edit: What I mean is, if there are already 8 slots used in the CPU rack, then you cannot install an ethernet CP in that rack, no matter if the 24V PSU is in the same rack or not.
If on the other hand you have at least one slot free, you can install an ethernet CP. And if you have to move the 24V PSU you can do so.

To convert the hardware of an F CPU to another type F CPU, you need an option for STEP7 called "distributed safety". It also requires a bit of know-how. I think you should find another solution unless you are already well versed in this topic.

There are 3rd party vendors of ethernet adapters that connect to the PG port on the S7 CPU.
IBH, Helmholz, Deltalogic and several others.
Here is one:
http://www.deltalogic.de/en/automation/s7-adapter/accon-netlink-pro-compact.html

Wilso said:

According to the datasheet of that module, Global data communication is not possible, which rules it out!

Click to expand...

What is meant by "global data" is that in an MPI telegram, some global data can be transferred cyclically. This only works on MPI and not with other network methods.
It does not mean that data can not be transferred "globally" so to speak.

Jesper

Your better at "reading between the lines" on questions
than I am

I always seem to back and read responses and say to myself
"hummm, so that's what he meant"

I think he looked at the place in the specs pertaining to the ethernet port, and then there is a line stating "supports global data communication - no".
Like you asked back, a full quote would clarify what he really meant.

JesperMP said:

I think he looked at the place in the specs pertaining to the ethernet port, and then there is a line stating "supports global data communication - no".

Click to expand...

Bingo. I am aware of the GDI being across the MPI network. But deciphering Siemens spec sheets isn't always easy. I might post a photo of the rack, but I will get permission first. There's a lot of rules around photographing this plant. I don't want to upset anyone - or get sacked.

There's 2 racks on my safety PLC. Can anyone confirm whether an ethernet card must be on the first rack?

JesperMP said:

The PSU does not make any difference. Its pressence in the HW configuration has no consequences as far as I know. So that is not the way to go.
edit: What I mean is, if there are already 8 slots used in the CPU rack, then you cannot install an ethernet CP in that rack, no matter if the 24V PSU is in the same rack or not.
If on the other hand you have at least one slot free, you can install an ethernet CP. And if you have to move the 24V PSU you can do so.

To convert the hardware of an F CPU to another type F CPU, you need an option for STEP7 called "distributed safety". It also requires a bit of know-how. I think you should find another solution unless you are already well versed in this topic.

There are 3rd party vendors of ethernet adapters that connect to the PG port on the S7 CPU.
IBH, Helmholz, Deltalogic and several others.
Here is one:
http://www.deltalogic.de/en/automation/s7-adapter/accon-netlink-pro-compact.html

Click to expand...

Between you guys, our engineers, and a bit of research, I've learned a bit more today. Basically, my problem is physical space. The main rack set up is.

1 - PS 307 5A
2 - CPU 317F-2 DP
X1- MPI/DP
X2- DP
3 - IM365
4 - PLC-IO1
5 - PLC-I2
6 - PLC-I3

So my understanding is that as far as hardware is concerned, I can install a card (6GK7343-1EX30-0XE0). Next time I'm in the switch room, I will actually have to take a ruler and measure whether I can squeeze the ethernet card in. Failing that, I can move the power supply to another place in the cabinet, then I've got plenty of room.


?????

You can definitely move the 24V PS to another location, that will give you enough space to install a CP343-1 LEAN module.

But ... do you have "distributed safety" as mentioned in post # 7 ?
If not, I wouldnt touch the HW Configuration.

Alternatively, look at the 3rd party adapters I mentioned in post # 7.
These means you dont have to change the HW configuration, and do not require to find extra space.

Yep, got distributed safety. Message from the engineer was that we don't use LEAN cards. They've got their reasons.