Authorizations

Iulian_84

Member
Join Date
Oct 2013
Location
Timisoara
Posts
2
I have a few questions regarding some issues.
Let’s suppose that an electrician/ engineer electrician is working in a production area , where we have different automatic or semi automated industrial machines with a consumption per each machine is about 2-5A.Power supply is 380V a.c. or 220V a.c.
1. What kind of authorization is necessary for the electrician/engineer electrician in order to make maintenance operations or interventions, like: changing a relay, replace a sensor, make some small modification in electrical cabinet ( at 380 V a.c to 24 Vd.c.)
2. If the production area is build also industrial machines and the electrical cabinet is made by the electrician and the project by electrical engineer, what kind of authorizations is necessary to functions this machine? The consummation of this machines is 2-5A at 380V a.c or 220V a.c.
3. For programming the machines I thing is not necessary any kind of authorization.
Thank you for the support.
 
Iulian_84,
welcome to the forum.

i can only speak for the states, but here's some things to consider.

1. what is the area classified where you will be working?
hazaedous gases, dusts, fibers?
2. what is the arc flash potential?
3. has a risk assessment been done in regards to the work?

4. when doing the work, is the machine going to be in production? if yes, what are the risks involved with changing out the relay, sensor, valve? can the system be shut down during the process?
if the machine shuts down, what is the associated downtime costs to get back up and runnning? would it be better to shut down production and clear the machine first?

5. in regards to plc changes, do those making the changes understand how to program and how the software actucaay works?
6. do they understand how the machine operates?

these are the questions i'm always asked.

in regards to # 5,6 i'm being serious. sometimes the best intentions have other consequences elsewhere in the program.

regards,
james
 
From a technical point, one needs only a screw driver, channel lock, hammer and a little knowledge or sense of adventure.
Beyond that you need permission from the owner or the owners agent.
 
RussB,
i disagree.
everywhere i have worked you have to be qualified to enter electrical cabinets.

i am one of the few at this facility with access to almost all electrical panels. i stop beyond 480 volt panels. we also have 4160, 13.8 kv and 161 kv.

even though i am an electrical engineer, i am required to have training on loto, arc flash and ppe, electrical panels, and a host of other classes to do my work.

here, you will be walked out the door if you are found inside a control panel and are not qualified.

we have had contractors fired for improper procedures and safety vio;ations, even if it meant we had to spend more money to get others to finish the work.


regards,
james
 
Last edited:
I agree with James.

Don't know for Romania, but a little southern in my country you should be qualified according to a regulation written long time ago for the electrical equipment of the power plants. Nowadays, even for wiring a lamp in a place where construction works are performed, you should be qualified to a different level of the regulation.
 
Hello to all and thank you.

Well:
1. It is not a hazardous area.
2. I don't know how to calculate the arc flash potential...maybe you can help me.
3. The risk assessment is not a common practice here, but it will be in future , with SIL2,4 etc..
4. I can stop the production without any problems
5. Yes, until now I did a lot of changing and programming the entire production line.

In our country the Authority for energy says that:"only if you make connections, or modification for system that are directly connect to grid it is necessary to have authorization, nothing about static machines and production.

For construction the electrical cabinet it is necessary I thing to have CE 2006/42.

So in this moment I don't know exactly what kind of authorization is necessary.

Best regards,
 
In the UK I would like to agree with James and think that only appropiately skilled people should carry out the task but in reality its much dependent on the site. For example I have worked on multiple sites and have been free to do what I will, my current employment as a electrical maintenance engineer, within a big brewys in the UK I look after (well try) multi million pound high speed machines and currently to date I have had no offical training. Everything I have learnt has been off my own back..

Then on the flip side I have worked on other sites that have procedures and they are way over and above for even someone who is qaulified and inadvertly makes that job that all so much harder when it shouldnt been for a trained and qaulified individual.

Then you got an individauls ability.

e.g. Person x has been working successfully / safely within electrical panels for 20 plus years. So you could say person x has 20 years electrical experience, but person x doesnt have any qualifications.

You they get person Y, fresh out of college all qaulified up the hills but ask them to do the job of person X and it wouldnt happen.. but does this mean its right!?

What I also find within maintenance is because your a so called "engineer" apprantly that means you can do/fix anything...???
 
as a follow up.

at my former plant, my BOSS, yes my boss, started a machine he had no clue how to operate and caused 40K in damage simply by turning it on. what harm can that do.

there were checkout procedures that he wasn't aware of and was nearly fired. this wasn't his first time for doing something like this.

when doing any type of electrical work, there is a risk involved. getting shocked, electrocuted, burned, accidently shorting out something that will start a process by accident, and the list goes on and on.

IMO and from experience only those who understand electricity,
plc programming, and basic machie operation needs to be in control panels. each of us have heard of or have stories to tell in regards to someone with good intentions getting into trouble.

even experienced people make mistakes (I AM IN THAT LIST), get distracted, interrupted doing safety progedure checklists and end up getting hurt.

to me its safety first, think the process thru, ask when in doubt, get maintenance involved to make sure of your planned actions. its better to be stopped before you make the mistake and look silly, than to be hurt or get someone else hurt.

i guess to sum it up, be safe, think the process thru, ask what if questions when making program changes - better have an answer, ask for help if in doubt, keep co-workers safe, live to see another day.
regards,
james
 

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