Talk me INTO it... (Noob)

I am thinking of deploying a AB SLC 500, RSLogix and Wonderware Intouch for my home automation, monitoring and control. First off I know there may be lots of frowning on the idea, however I have not been able to really find a consumer grade system that would accomplish everything I would like to do.

Firstly - I am looking at constructing a 60' x 120' pole barn style building, it will have a portion of living quarters, a portion with a climate controlled garage/workshop, and a portion that is non-climate controlled storage.

Secondly I also plan to have an array of energy systems, firstly a large (800,000 btu) outside wood boiler for radiant heating, a 10 ton geothermal reversible water to water heat pump (the unit I am considering has a DMX controls board with MCP module (modbus), which will be supplemental to the boiler for winter time heating, but the primary source of cooling in the summertime. There are also plans for one or two 10kw wind turbines and tracking solar array 2.5kw (expandable to multiple arrays in a field if controls are feasible, this may be the most complicated programming venture in the whole plan as far as mathematics and motor controls). I also would like to automate a backup generator in case of a power outage.

Thirdly I would to be able to control most every light and some receptacles in the living portion with a single button press - i.e. put the house to sleep as it were, or automate the time that the children can get on TV/video systems.

Fourth, I have a fairly limited history in PLC programming and system implementation. I do however have a pretty good grasp on the ideas behind it, how ladder logic and programming works, a good idea of what I would like to do, and also some time to plan, design, code, and test the systems. I'm reading through the SLC 500 instruction set presently.

Is this a forum/community that would be open to changing my diapers, feeding me my bottle, and burping me when needed? Thoughts, ideas, and opinions are certainly welcomed, perhaps I belong someplace else? Remember every village needs an idiot!

Here is a little sketch up of the geothermal/boiler system I have started, and as you can see it is a little more involved than most typical home systems and is not yet nearly completed.



Thanks for your time and consideration!

Neal

Thoughts, ideas, and opinions are certainly welcomed, perhaps I belong someplace else?

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Here is probably good as any to combine all these different functions. You may have to get some help from HVAC sites, wind turbine sites, and so on, but we should be able to help you with the control and PLC parts.

One thing I see right away is that your various devices will probably require different control voltages. For example, your heat pump may come wired with a control transformer with 24 volt AC secondary voltage. Some of the remote items may need 120 volt AC solenoid valves, and the remainder 24 Volt DC power. So your PLC will need output modules that can handle the different voltages. Either that, you will need to swap out control transformers so that they all will run off a common voltage supply.

I used a Carrier geothermal water-source heat pump for over 30 years in my old place (sold it 4 years ago). The heat pump was still running great when I sold it, probably because it was very ligtly loaded for cooling the underground house, and in winter I mainly used a wood stove for heating.

I have a panel builder who I use from time to time who did his whole house with a PLC/panelviews. If you have the experience then go for it.

The only thing I would try and talk you out of is using a SCL500. The SLC500 is entering the end of its life cycle and is being priced accordingly. A Compact Logix will cost you quite a bit less money. In your panel design take consideration for future proofing, becasue some day you may need to switch out whatever PLC you do choose.

tconnolly said:

i have a panel builder who i use from time to time who did his whole house with a plc/panelviews. If you have the experience then go for it.

The only thing i would try and talk you out of is using a scl500. The slc500 is entering the end of its life cycle and is being priced accordingly. A compact logix will cost you quite a bit less money. In your panel design take consideration for future proofing, becasue some day you may need to switch out whatever plc you do choose.

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+1

TConnolly said:

I have a panel builder who I use from time to time who did his whole house with a PLC/panelviews. If you have the experience then go for it.

The only thing I would try and talk you out of is using a SCL500. The SLC500 is entering the end of its life cycle and is being priced accordingly. A Compact Logix will cost you quite a bit less money. In your panel design take consideration for future proofing, becasue some day you may need to switch out whatever PLC you do choose.

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The nice thing about SLC500 is that they are very plentiful on ebay, almost any module can be found. CL looks a little more sparse.

I was hoping to use a couple video cards connected to some touch panel monitors for living quarters controls. That is something that can be accommodated via Intouch, correct?

Neal

I thought you would also have to buy software for the SLC500 and that sounds expensive. Am I mistaken?

I would look into a 1100... you can find them on eBay (new and used) plenty of 1762-xxxx modules to go along with them and they have Ethernet built in, so if you need to add a bunch of I/O you can just add another CPU and do messaging between them.

The software is also free, if you don't have it and if you have the software then look into the 1400 also another great model

Have you looked at the AutomationDirect Site?

You can also check-out their Directlogic PLC's, C-More Touch panels etc. Not sure of the current capabilities of Intouch HMI's, keep in mind the C-more panels do not have the capability to do calculations or excute scripts if that is a requirment for you. Basically, all logic will have to be done in the PLC. Also, these panels support all Allenbradley PLC's as well as many other brands and they do work very well.

These are Fraction of the cost (in Brand New condition) of AB Hardware and software. Help and support forums are readily available and does not require a support contract like Rockwell requires you to have.

They work flawlessly. I personally have installed quite a few of their Touchscreens (over 30) and several of their PLC's in industrial applications. 3 + years running 24/7 without a single one failing to date.

AB PLC's are great as well but at a higher cost. However, I cannot say the same for AB's Panelviews (Touchscreens) which cost about 3 times as much and have had high failure rates in my experience.

I cannot tell you about WonderWare as I have purposely stayed away from it after the first experience dealing with them about 5 years ago. Same thing for AB's RsView HMI software. I personnaly prefer GE's CIMPLICITY, but it is not cheap.

It all depends on how involved you want this to be. Keeping it simple would be the best path forward.

Just my 2 cents.

geniusintraining said:

I would look into a 1100... you can find them on eBay (new and used) plenty of 1762-xxxx modules to go along with them and they have Ethernet built in, so if you need to add a bunch of I/O you can just add another CPU and do messaging between them.

The software is also free, if you don't have it and if you have the software then look into the 1400 also another great model

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The 1100 looks a little small, I'll check out the 1400.

What software is used to configure them, and would it interface to Wonderware in a similar way?

Neal

skyfox said:

Have you looked at the AutomationDirect Site?

You can also check-out their Directlogic PLC's, C-More Touch panels etc. Not sure of the current capabilities of Intouch HMI's, keep in mind the C-more panels do not have the capability to do calculations or excute scripts if that is a requirment for you. Basically, all logic will have to be done in the PLC. Also, these panels support all Allenbradley PLC's as well as many other brands and they do work very well.

These are Fraction of the cost (in Brand New condition) of AB Hardware and software. Help and support forums are readily available and does not require a support contract like Rockwell requires you to have.

They work flawlessly. I personally have installed quite a few of their Touchscreens (over 30) and several of their PLC's in industrial applications. 3 + years running 24/7 without a single one failing to date.

AB PLC's are great as well but at a higher cost. However, I cannot say the same for AB's Panelviews (Touchscreens) which cost about 3 times as much and have had high failure rates in my experience.

I cannot tell you about WonderWare as I have purposely stayed away from it after the first experience dealing with them about 5 years ago. Same thing for AB's RsView HMI software. I personnaly prefer GE's CIMPLICITY, but it is not cheap.

It all depends on how involved you want this to be. Keeping it simple would be the best path forward.

Just my 2 cents.

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I have not, I really only know about the AB stuff as that is what I have been introduced to in the past. I also know that AB and Wonderware work together in many systems, so I was hoping that familiarity between the two would be helpful. In reality I am only after the excellent graphics of Wonderware, there doesn't seem to be another HMI that is quite as beautiful at least that I have heard about. If I use WonderWare I can operate several VGA/HDMI touch panels (cloned Windows desktops) off the main computer that is running WW and RSLogix, and not have to use any dedicated type control panels at all.

Neal

nick7269 said:

I thought you would also have to buy software for the SLC500 and that sounds expensive. Am I mistaken?

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RSLogix 500 is $1000 or so, WonderWare is $2600 or so. It isn't cheap.

Neal

May I suggest the following.

do the initial concept design - done

determine the components needed - in progress

get a cost for the components.

if its still within your budget, continue.
get a budget for the labor.

not trying to slam you, just wanting you to think ahead.

slc 500 software $1100
logix 5000 - not sure
wonderware or rsview $ 5000 or higher.
hmi package on this site - free - title an eye catching graphics package.

regards,
james

James Mcquade said:

May I suggest the following.

hmi package on this site - free - title an eye catching graphics package.

regards,
james

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What's this now??

Neal

DamianInRochester said:

+1

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and me +1.

I like SLC's, used them for years but I really love CompactLogix. As has already been said SLC's are getting near the end of their life, if you are putting something in at home you probably want it to last 30 years. Will you still be able to get reliable SLC parts on eBay even in 15 years?

I would start by looking at the little CompactLogix L1, you can put most of your I/O on ethernet Point I/O and add to it as needed. You will need RSLogix 5000 but probably only need the Mini Edition which in the UK is 1/4 the price of the Standard Edition.

If you are not sure of the system design and layout download the free Integrated Architecture Builder (IAB) from the Rockwell website, it will help you with your design, highlight many layout and capacity faults and will compile a complete parts list.

I guess I should have also asked are there any alternatives to WonderWare that may suit me. I would think I am a little more the opposite of most HMI goals, I would rather have more detailed flashy graphical animations and less raw data, at least on the primary display pages.