Programming PC tips and tricks? ;)

Hi!

First of all, we have Siemens (TIA portal , step 7 , LOGOsoft, WinCC Flexible Advanced), panasonic, Rockwell (Connected Component Workbench, RSLogix500, FactoryTalk View Studio). I've hear that it is a good idea not to have programming software on the same "computer" rather then having a couple of XP-mode clones with one software on each. What are your inputs?

Next step:

We want to buy a new laptop for programming. Programming isn't the main task of our company but occasionally we will handle whole new programs, edit old one etc etc.

My thoughts are that I need a fast processor, fare amount of RAM, fast HDD/SSD and a high resolution 15.4" screen. Since we don't use this on a regular basis I wouldn't like it to cost a fortune. However I would like it to last some years, so I can put some money into it. Any inputs so far?

I have looked on DELL computers but often they are very expensive in relation to what you get. So I found Lenovo wich has a computer I think is pretty valuable. Anyone have experiences with Lenovo?

This is what I got:

Intel Core i7-3632QM Processor (6M Cache, 2.20 GHz)
Windows 7 Professional 64 preinstalled through downgrade rights in Windows 8 Pro
15.6W FHD Antiglare, Midnight Black - No WWAN
Intel HM77 - Intel HD 4000 Integrated Graphics (WWAN or mSATA capable)
16 GB DDR3L - 1600MHz (2 DIMM)
128GB S128GB Solid State Drive, SATA III
6 cell Li-Ion Battery 62WH - 75+
1 Year Depot/Express Warranty

This will cost me 9000SEK wich is roughly speaking 1300$.

Any inputs is welcome

/Tim

Hi Tim,

I only use Dells, not that other PC's are any better or worse I have just had very good luck with them from the hardware and if I compare my time working on PC's (I really hate PC issues) its worth pay a little more for the better product

Just saying don't look at the cost being the deciding factor

I have several PC's running all the software you have listed and a lot more... I have them all running on the main machine and do not have any VM's, but I a lot of people here love the VM's, just like a name on a PC I think you can have good or bad luck with either and its just a matter of choice

Hope that helps
Mark

I use Dell Precision 6600 (17") with Win7 pro 64 bit and 24 GB RAM.

All PLC software run on separately VMware virtual machine and no mix of PLC manufacturer software.
For larger customers, I use separate virtual machine with the client setup.

First of all thanks alot for the input guys, really appretiate it.

@Geniusintraining: We have also good experience with Dell and it is the only manufactor we have bought computers from until now. It's just that if I compare this Lenovo computer for 1300$ I would have to buy atleast a 2000$ laptop from Dell to come close to the specifications.
So you've had no bad experieces with running many diffrent softwares on the singla machine? Why is it that some peaople recommend it?

@JERA: If I were to buy a Dell Precision in that size I would have to pay 3000$ and then I only get 16GB ram. I know price shouldn't matter but it's hard to justify a top dollar computer when we don't do that much PLC programming. What do you run each software on a diffrent VM? What are the pros and cons?

So if you spend one day working on a PC that failed or a few days building a new hard drive the you lost money... so for 700 more I would not even think about it, but thats just me

Below is a screen shot of the programs (not all) that I have running on this PC and use them all once or twice a week and never had issues, that said its just like the Dell PC... its just user choice and I think either way is fine if it works for you, I do like the idea of having a VM for each large customer, that would save a lot of time

So the reason people recommend it... it works for them

It's true that a stable laptop is the best investment I will take that and support into my consideration. Thanks alot for the inputs, I think I'm not going with Lenovo after all, I think the support will not be to great as I would have if I bought one from dell or a distributer.

However I think Dell is out of the picture as well since I think they are overprices regarding the performance (theoretical) on the laptops. I have found a Acer computer from a distributer in Sweden. I will email them about the support and go from there.

Here in the states Dell is not that far off on the prices so for me its easy to go with them, I do understand... I have heard good things about Acer so that maybe a good one also

Yea, I would love living in the states to buy cheap electronics. I made a compare of Lenovo , Acer and Dell. Similar specs and it was 1300$ for lenovo, 1500$ for the Acer and 2500$ for Dell. i give it some more thought over the next week on how to approach the issue. Thanks.

Buying new PCs is expensive but as mentioned, if you need it (even if rarely) then that usually means the process is down. Factor that down time in as well as the reliability and support of a more expensive unit and it makes it eaiser to justify. Even if you don't need it immeadiatley and find your machine is down, reloading the software is a dance with the Devil all it's own and one i try to avoid at all costs. (back up your machine often) Not trying to sway your decision, just giving you more things t consider. Like they say you get what you pay for.

rQx said:

@JERA: If I were to buy a Dell Precision in that size I would have to pay 3000$ and then I only get 16GB ram. I know price shouldn't matter but it's hard to justify a top dollar computer when we don't do that much PLC programming. What do you run each software on a diffrent VM? What are the pros and cons?

Click to expand...

I've tried several brands of laptop, but the best experience with Dell. They also have good service and support if error occurs.
I live full time of PLC / SCADA programming, so good tool is necessary.

I have separate VMware virtual machines for Siemens, AB, Omron, Schneider and several other vendors programming software.
I also have different VMware virtual machine for SCADA software, so I can test against SCADA system.

Advantages: Optimal OS for each programming software, no problems with the mix of software and may have different versions of the same software without problems (not always the customer's latest version)
No problems with old programming software for dos

Disadvantages: need some disk space for the various VMware virtual machine - have a external hard drive of 1TB with different VMware virtual machine I do not use so often.
There is a need for much RAM when more than one VMware virtual machine must be running at the same time.

I went VMWare about 2 years ago and I can't imagine life before it.

You will want a PC you can mount two SSDs on.
I recommend putting the OS on a small one 256GB.
I recommend putting ALL of your data on a larger one 512GB.
This way when you back up your data or move to a new laptop it is easy to just pull the data drive and you're off to the races.

The only software I put in the host is Office, VMware, and AutoCAD stuff. Everything else goes in my VMs. My VMs are stored and run from my Data SSD. This way the OS can have one SSD all to itself and the VM can have the Data SSD. With this arrangement everything is clean and fast.

I always get a really nice computer. My time to me is the valuable thing I have. Even if a faster computer only makes you 5% more efficient, just do a quick calculation on how much 5% of your time is for a full year. Even if you only work 1800 hours a year, that is 90 hours @ 5%.

Even if you can get all the software to play well together, it just is not worth the effort. Being able to backup, make clones, take snapshots, etc. is just too powerful to ignore.

I just upgraded to an M6700 with a K5000M, i7-3740QM, 32GB Ram 512SSD for the OS and I popped in my 1TB SSD out of my M6500 for the Data and VM. Got a decent deal because it was a refurb. It responds instantaneously to everything and I never have to wait.

The laptop you mention above sounds fine but I think the HD is way too small. It doesn't have a graphics card either, just the built in one that comes default, so if you run Acad on it you might get some lag there. Otherwise you should be doing good.

We run a Dell Precision 15.4inch with a Core i7 and 16gb of Ram, Windows 7 Pro.

We run all our programming software on Oracle´s Virtual Box. We found it to be much better than VMware in terms of speed! Virtual Box running on 1 core and 4gb is perfectly usable. We found that in VMware you needed to give the VM more ram and more cores and it was still slower than Virtual Box. The other advantage of Virtual Box is that it dynamically allocates memory, not like VMware that you have to tell it the size of its HDD and thats how much memory it uses in your real machine. We have virtual machines running Windows XP and Windows 7 and we run AB, Siemens, B&R, ABB and Android (Possibly a few others but that's all the ones I use).

The only "issue" I have with VirtualBox is you cannot Copy and Paste a file from inside the virtual machine to your real machine, you have to use their Shared Folder to pass things from your real machines to your virtual machines and vice-versa.

In the past we used to run everything on the real machine (because VMware was so slow) but its not worth the trouble, there sometimes are problems with running different manufacturers software on the same machine but aside from that, the big advantage of running everything in Virtual Machines is the speed at which you can take a laptop that's just been formatted it to having all the software you need to run any manufacturer. It takes us roughly 90 minutes and most of that time is downloading the VM from the network.

Of course YMMV but I certainly would recommend Virtual Box over VMware.

Usireland said:

We run a Dell Precision 15.4inch with a Core i7 and 16gb of Ram, Windows 7 Pro.

We run all our programming software on Oracle´s Virtual Box. We found it to be much better than VMware in terms of speed! Virtual Box running on 1 core and 4gb is perfectly usable. We found that in VMware you needed to give the VM more ram and more cores and it was still slower than Virtual Box. The other advantage of Virtual Box is that it dynamically allocates memory, not like VMware that you have to tell it the size of its HDD and thats how much memory it uses in your real machine. We have virtual machines running Windows XP and Windows 7 and we run AB, Siemens, B&R, ABB and Android (Possibly a few others but that's all the ones I use).

The only "issue" I have with VirtualBox is you cannot Copy and Paste a file from inside the virtual machine to your real machine, you have to use their Shared Folder to pass things from your real machines to your virtual machines and vice-versa.

In the past we used to run everything on the real machine (because VMware was so slow) but its not worth the trouble, there sometimes are problems with running different manufacturers software on the same machine but aside from that, the big advantage of running everything in Virtual Machines is the speed at which you can take a laptop that's just been formatted it to having all the software you need to run any manufacturer. It takes us roughly 90 minutes and most of that time is downloading the VM from the network.

Of course YMMV but I certainly would recommend Virtual Box over VMware.

Click to expand...

All of my VMs are set up for 1GB of ram or less and none of them have more than one core assigned. I have not experienced speed issues outside of a bug in Windows XP Automatic update that would cause the VMs CPU usage to peg at 100%. I have no experience with VBox so I can't compare in that regard.

I don't believe it what you said above is true regarding the physical size of the VM. I have all my VMs set at 100+GB yet the actual files are all actually 30GB or less depending on how much I have installed in it.