Does Arduino have any place in industry?

At home, I play with arduinos sometimes; at work I play with PLCs. I often think about bridging the gap, but that strikes my intuition as an unwritten (or at least unknown to me where it is written) taboo. But is it? I have seen other users here mention arduino here, but just in passing. I have seen one-off proprietary circuit boards installed in machines, which I highly doubt were put through the years of testing that PLCs tout. So is all that testing and certification really a requirement for a circuit/device to be embedded in machine logic? Or is it up to the discretion of the machine builder? Could a machine legally be controlled by an arduino? Would it be unwise? What are the insurance ramifications? On the technical level, I don't see any reason why not; I have put arduino in harsh conditions and had one running a process since 2010 without failure. But still, if I were a machine builder, I would be reluctant, for reasons that escape me.

In my opinion, the biggest issue would the long term ability to maintain the system. The end user of the system needs to be able to troubleshoot and repair the controls for the life of the machine. The more obscure the components of the control system, the smaller the population of people capable of doing that. It gets worse if the obscure components require specialized tools to be able to configure them. As years go by, there are fewer and fewer people who remember how to work with the products and who still have those specialized tools.

I can see some use for them. But as Steve Bailey pointed out, troubleshooting and managing them are very close to proprietary controllers which are less and less popular nowadays.

I guess I could see some use for them in encapsulated modules were you just ship the modules pre-configured and ready to work and can be replaced like a spare part.

I once designed an encapsulated electronic circuit that would control the opening of a proportional valve on a fixed slope from 0 to 100% that was dirt cheap and replaçable. However, looking back on it, I think an Arduino would have given me a bit more flexibility at en even cheaper price.

I wouldn't use this on maintainable machines and processes.

strantor said:

... Or is it up to the discretion of the machine builder?

Click to expand...

Yes.

strantor said:

Could a machine legally be controlled by an arduino?

Click to expand...

Yes.

strantor said:

Would it be unwise? What are the insurance ramifications?

Click to expand...

Same as anything else.

strantor said:

On the technical level, I don't see any reason why not; I have put arduino in harsh conditions and had one running a process since 2010 without failure. But still, if I were a machine builder, I would be reluctant, for reasons that escape me.

Click to expand...

Let me help you with that. Two examples are the Click from AD and the ML1000 from AB.
Both are about $100.00, and have free software.
With any MCU board, be it PIC, Arduino, etc., by the time you add optoisolators and relays or other buffers to outputs, how much have you saved?
Then there's power supply and packaging. Final test, immunity to noise, ability to take the heat, long term reliability.

If you're going to build thousands, roll your own. If it's just a few hundred or less, use off-the-shelf electronics.

For products other than industrial machines, I would not be opposed to using an Arduino.

I agree with Steve's points. But here's some food for thought:

http://paulfurley.com/arduino-isnt-just-for-hackers/

kolyur said:

I agree with Steve's points. But here's some food for thought:

http://paulfurley.com/arduino-isnt-just-for-hackers/

Click to expand...

Interesting article. There were some good points, but a lot of his PLC based comments were obviously from someone with little experience with PLC's, IMHO.

I have found that students/recent graduates love the micro based systems, because they can use C & the syntax that comes with it, rather than learning & understanding ladder & other software.

I have dabbled with arduino as well & have one on the test bench, but have not had much time to give it a decent go.
What I do know though, was that it took a while to get it to install & connect on a few different PC's for some reason. Not as easy as he makes out..

I don't have any customers that I could convince to use a microcontroller on their machine vs a PLC. It's hard enough sometimes talking them into using my preferred vendor let alone a 'hobby' grade solution. When I say hobby, that's how it's often perceived.

For certain applications, they are very well suited but for typical industrial control applications they need some polish. I can send out any of our techs, get them online with the PLC and and walk them through troubleshooting any of the machines we've built very quickly. Ladder tends to be a very good tool for troubleshooting.

The difference between a PLC and a arduino is the package as some plc are controlled with a ATMEGA328.
and yes the extensions of course as they are specific for thevendor, and yes a micro costs only 100 euro so the price is getting close to each other.
The disadvantage of a PLC is in its programming and timeloops.
in a Micro you can use interupts and as the speed is high you can make PWM direct, analog in also direct arduino has 6 inputs 10 bit for 5 euro, well try to find me a PLC for this price.
so yes i do love arduino, make a lot of tests with it, and sometimes i use PLC when the insurance asks for it (LLoyds)

There is nothing wrong with the Atmel micro controller that is used in an Arduino. The problem is making all the components ready for industrial applications. PLCs undergo a lot of tests to get their UL/CSA and CE ratings.

The other thing you guys don't realize is that when you buy a PLC the software is 99.9% done for you. If you try to make an industrial controller from scratch you must write all of the code.

This thread may of some interest:

http://www.plctalk.net/qanda/showthread.php?t=80647


-rpoet

I have used PIC chips (my opinion your next step from Arduino) in industry. But it can be hard to find place for it because like others have said it must be able to be worked on. Here there are a few others who can work on and program circuit boards. But ten years from now that may not be true. One example of where i have used them before is I have an older machine with limited room in the panel and no capital what so ever to use. And i needed a fault displayed for little money and only one output open from the PLC. I coded the fault from the plc to a PIC circuit that displayed a the fault to a couple of seven segments led displays in number form. I was also able to bring back up a record of the last few faults that arose and the time of the fault. I did this by telling the PLC talk to my circuit using time of pulses. Total cost was ~20$ an assembly but in reality they were parts laying in an electrical cabinet. So they can be used but only in circumstances where they are not prudent to the machines operations. If I was to leave the company I am not sure somebody else could follow me and reproduce what I have done.

found this on G+

Concrete Batch Plant using Arduino and LIFA

http://geotechbd.blogspot.co.uk/2013/12/our-company-owns-quite-old-concrete.html

CharlesM said:

Concrete Batch Plant using Arduino and LIFA

http://geotechbd.blogspot.co.uk/2013/12/our-company-owns-quite-old-concrete.html

Click to expand...

Check the picture of the wiring !

It is possible, but is it legal ?

JesperMP said:

Check the picture of the wiring !

It is possible, but is it legal ?

Click to expand...

Everything is legal in India

The PLC was created for two purposes, but the one that's relevant to this subject is that it was created to be programmed in a language that non-programmers (electricians and maintenance workers) can easily understand and modify. The program looks like an electrical schematic for a reason. Using any language other than ladder or Function Block IMO defeats the purpose of a PLC.