MCC Wiring Question

MATT116

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Dec 2009
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Dallas, TX
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I'm a little confused on where my start switch would go on the attached pdf of an Allen Bradley MCC bucket.
1&1A? Cant see how that would work since the feedback N.O. contact (14)(13) wont be closed until the starter is pulled in.
1&3? Seems like that would work but then that would light the "on" lamp even if the starter wasn't pulled in.
What am I missing?

Thanks
 
For a normal start/stop circuit with pushbuttons, the N.O. start pushbutton is wired to terminals 2 & 3, the N.C. stop pushbutton is wired to terminals 1 & 2. The M contact wired to terminals 2 & 3 is the "seal in". The M contact wired to terminals 4 & 5 can be used as run feedback to a PLC or other controls.

If you are going to wire up a "maintained" switch like an ON/OFF switch or a PLC output, you would wire to terminals 1 & 3.

Your concern about the run light being on even if the starter isn't pulled in is valid. However, that is inherent in the standard wiring. The M contact only knows that the starter is pulled in, it does not know if a motor is even connected. I've seen people wire the run light to terminals 3 and wire 3A (not usually brought out to the terminal strip) so that the light would not come on if the overloads were tripped but it is non-standard and I would not advise doing it.
 
Thanks for the reply's guys.
I will be using 1 and 3 then. I guess if the light is on and the motor is not running they will at least know they are getting a run signal.
 
A word of warning.
The vast majority of motors with hardwired controls are controlled with start/stop pushbuttons rather than on/off switches. The main reason is: motors controlled with on/off switches will restart after a power failure and motors controlled by start/stop pushbuttons will not. There are valid situations to use on/off control on a motor but they are very much the minority (probably less than 1%). So please take the unintended restart into consideration in your design.
 
I've seen people wire the run light to terminals 3 and wire 3A (not usually brought out to the terminal strip) so that the light would not come on if the overloads were tripped but it is non-standard and I would not advise doing it.

i would also not advise that. overloads in MCB trips the breaker so Run contact is disengaged. if however overload is separated then it should break the start command so it will also disengage the run contact.

as for lamp, yes but if the start button is not maintained then it won't do much damage if starter wasn't pulled in as it will be lit just as long as the button is pressed.
 
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Sorry I guess I shouldn't have start switch. The start is a N.O. contact from a PLC so its maintained.

There are two concepts involved here, "2 wire control" and "3 wire control". The wire numbering system, the "1, 2, 3" is a small part of a standard configuration that has been around since before WWII, developed by what was called the "JIC", Joint Industries Council, which no longer exists. The purpose of the standard was so that electricians, wherever they worked, were going to be able to quickly identify and troubleshoot motor starter circuits in machine tools, regardless of the differences in component design or company standards. It came out of the need for (mainly) Automotive factories to have the ability to use (steal) electricians from each others facilities and feel confident in them not making mistakes. The JIC standards were supplanted by NFPA-79 a long time ago, but the NFPA-79 does not dictate a wire numbering scheme any longer. Still, many of the "old guard" NEMA manufacturers still use it.

In a standard JIC 3 wire control scheme, the start-stop function is done with momentary control devices, which makes it safer in the event of a power failure. 2 wire control schemes are rarely used for that reason, except when it was IMPORTANT for equipment to re-start automatically after a power failure.

The advent of PLCs left many people in the dust on that issue however. Traditionalists (like me) who cut our teeth on the old JIC wiring conventions, typically use a combination of a "Local-Off-Remote" selector switch and a momentary Start-Stop button that only functions in "Local". But when in Remote, then the PLC contact is a 2-Wire control scheme AS WIRED AT THE STARTER, but it is up to the programmer to cover the re-start contingencies in the PLC program. Unfortunately that issue is often forgotten in the programming process.

When I do that, I add another NO aux. contact off of the starter that is feeding nothing but the pilot light and sourced from AHEAD of the rest of the circuit, i.e. terminal 1 in this case. That way if the light is on, it can ONLY be on if the contactor is pulled in.

Side note to modernize the concept: If there is a PLC involved and no Local mode required, I have taken to only using Solid State OL relays that are communicating to the PLC. The "seal-in" is now done NOT by looking at the status of the motor starter aux. contact, but rather at the FLOW OF CURRENT through the OL relay. That way you don't just know if the contactor is closed, you actually KNOW that the motor is running.
 
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Sorry I guess I shouldn't have start switch. The start is a N.O. contact from a PLC so its maintained.


It does not have to be. Just pulse the output.

The light does not tell you the motor is running, it only tells you the motor is being ask to run.
 

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