Micro800 and CCW - Looking For You Opinions

I've got a machine builder wanting to use the AB Micro800 series for an upcoming job. I realize that from a machine builders perspective, the low cost of the hardware is very appealing, but after reading some of the posts on this forum about experiences using the platform, I have my doubts whether this is a good option when looking at it from a plant support view (buggy software, different user interface, different instruction set, etc.).

Most of the negative posts seem to be from at least a couple of years ago, but I wonder if a lot of the issues from then have been addressed.

Also, how useful is the CCW software as a tool for online troubleshooting compared to RSLogix?

Thanks in advance for your input and insight.

Well a guy of our A-B supplier explained it very simple:
If you want to build 10 or more the exact the same machines, you can go for the Micro 800 and his CCW software.
For less than 10, use a Micrologic or a CompactLogic.

I've not used the paid version of CCW which has online editing abilities, but the free version is horrible. For Debugging and modifying the code you have to (re)build and download your project every time. And this is very time consuming. Programming is very slow, even on a (very) quick PC / Laptop.

If you have a lot of the same machines, I really see benefits on the Micro800 serie PLC's.
They are very compact with a lot of IO possibilities.
With software version 6, most of the problems mentioned on this forum are solved.

But it is definitely not a RSLogix, its a complete different platform, layout and toolset.

Jack

Do yourself and customers a huge favor and don't do it! Programming is extremely slow and the toolset is very limited compared to RSlogix. Trying to program with one is punishment.

I just finished my first project with a Micro 850. I used it as a test fixture for a panel that had a Micrologix 1400.

I regularly use Siemens and Allen Bradley PLCs as interchangeable so I'd like to think I'm fairly open minded and flexible to using different hardware. But even though the CCW is supposed to be IEC61131-3 compliant (like Siemens), I found it very difficult to use: just plain clunky. I'm glad I just used it for a test fixture.

Aside from the terrible CCW software, my Micro 850 had a bad input card from the factory. And none in local stock so I had to pay Allen Bradley's expedite fee to get a replacement. In 12 years of installing PLCs, I can't recall ever getting bad hardware from the factory before.

The Micro's communication to the HMI via Modbus was notably slow, slow, slow. I had an analog up/down arrow on a Weintek HMI and it was virtually unusable even though the Weintek is really fast. Very disappointing.

I will never use a Micro again. For the small difference in price, the Micrologix 1100 or 1400 is my preference. And if your customer really needs the free software, the Micrologix 1100 is a good choice.

would you use the Weintek HMI with a ml1100

the Micro can talk directly to a PV HMI and does not need modbus.

Call a spade a spade the micro 800 series is like choosing a Delta or Panasonic.

I found the 830 ok to program - a pain to add a PV to but still it works

The few hundred dollars you'll save in hardware costs will easily be spent as extra time programming, especially if you're used to RSLogix 500. I agree with the other post. If you're mass-producing these and can spread that extra programming time out enough to where the hardware costs are significant, do it. Otherwise, save yourself and everyone who will have to navigate it after you a ton of trouble.

If you're looking for a nice touchscreen, check out the C-More from Automationdirect. They're comparable in price to the Panelview Component, yet the software is a lot more straightforward.

nwboson said:

I just finished my first project with a Micro 850. I used it as a test fixture for a panel that had a Micrologix 1400.

I regularly use Siemens and Allen Bradley PLCs as interchangeable so I'd like to think I'm fairly open minded and flexible to using different hardware. But even though the CCW is supposed to be IEC61131-3 compliant (like Siemens), I found it very difficult to use: just plain clunky. I'm glad I just used it for a test fixture.

Aside from the terrible CCW software, my Micro 850 had a bad input card from the factory. And none in local stock so I had to pay Allen Bradley's expedite fee to get a replacement. In 12 years of installing PLCs, I can't recall ever getting bad hardware from the factory before.

The Micro's communication to the HMI via Modbus was notably slow, slow, slow. I had an analog up/down arrow on a Weintek HMI and it was virtually unusable even though the Weintek is really fast. Very disappointing.

I will never use a Micro again. For the small difference in price, the Micrologix 1100 or 1400 is my preference. And if your customer really needs the free software, the Micrologix 1100 is a good choice.

Click to expand...

I was wondering about the durability. Those Micro800s just seem really cheap and shoddy. I can't imagine one lasting for 20 years.

Thanks for all the comments regarding this. Based off previous posts about the Micro800, my gut was telling me to run away from this thing, but I was still teetering on the decision, thinking that maybe I should embrace the challenge of learning a new platform.

Not now, not for this product.

Having programmed the 800 series I found it not bad.
if you are used to Purely AB then keep away from it.
there are no references to XIC XIO etc.
the timers are not as easy to set.

But
like I had stated
if you program either a Panasonic or a Twido or similar this range is similar. even Mitsubishi IEC Developer

they are only an issue if you try to us them like the ML range.

these suffer the same as incorrectly setting the variable as a DINT or REAL so you do need to convert the variables.

If you have the time to work it out then all will be good.

Hard Pass for me

I would stay away from the Micro800's. A client of mine decided to save some money and buy this controller for a steam bypass and de-superheater station. In the long run it was much more expensive in work and rework.

There is no longer online edits (in any version). if you must debug 'on process' and make anything but a variable change you need to re-download and lose your outputs for the duration

The PID controller is a joke. No way to initialize the CV so there is no bumpless transfer from manual mode. As far as I can tell the Auto input BOOL does absolutely nothing although the manual says pretty clearly its for CV tracking as you might expect.

Not much of a FB selection so you find yourself writing tons of little user defined blocks to do just the simplest things (select 1 of 2 Real numbers or clamp a value for example )

Tech Support is free but not very knowledgeable.

Visual Studio is decent with 2 or 3 monitors (IMO) but gets very clunky on a laptop so field work is really frustrating. too many dockable items and panels to work with. Your entire screen gets filled with frames and doesn't leave much for the information you really want to see.

Version 7 seems to be less 'crashy' but Its still not entirely stable.


here's a tip from a noob
If you do use it an have an analog out be sure to clamp your PID output at a positive number. You will likely want a 0-100% out from your PID , then scale that number from 13107 to 65535 for the AO channel (4-20mA). the ANY_to_UINT will underflow at any value < 0 and the result will be an extremely large positive number. so if your PID is driving your output down and starts to go negative it AO channel will go from 0 to 100% and the process will not like it , yes that just happened to me


If you need something for your home sprinkler or HVAC system I think this is the way to go. Otherwise Stay away.

Interesting that online edits are not there.
I do remember the ability to print a program was removed from one CCW version then replaced a few versions later.

This range is ABs attempt at the iec standard

Online edits will return

I was told that the online edits will be available in the next release that is supposed to be out 1st or 2nd quarter of 2015.

That's a huge step forward but I still wouldn't try any PID loops again. At least not derived from the stock IPID FB

At least I am nowhere near needing it by then.
Famous last words I guess.