Siemens should I be worried?

Hello,

I have programmed most PLC brands Schneider(Unity,Somachine,Twido,Zelio), Allen Bradley(RS Logix5000), GE, Codesys and so on. Have never been at any training. Read the manual and then started programming and all these are similar and more or less ahere to IEC 61131-3 .

I have stayed away from Siemens and heard that it is quite different. But now I might have a project witwh S7-300 comming up. Is it really as different as I hear? I red about DBs. What's this?

Hi,

No need to be worried.

I also tried a couple of different vendors before I landed on Siemens.
It did not take long to get into it, and personally I think it is a very good tool/product.

In addition there are many others using it, so getting support and specific information is easy.

DB stands for Data Block. It is the way to store data in the plc.
You have for instance FB for Function Block, and FC for function. I am sure you are aware of those. Then you have DB for storing data.


Good luck !

RUN!!!!

Just kidding its not that bad, do you know what software you are using ? Step7 V5.5 or TIA portal V13, If its a newer CPU then you may be able to use the TIA software, I like it better then V5.5 but thats just because I have not used V5.5 that much so its easier to understand for me

Don't worry be happy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oo4OnQpwjkc

The only real difference (as you already mentioned) are DB's. These are basically custom blocks where you can put your data. They are also used as "headers" to your function blocks. They are what makes Siemens very flexible. Once you get a hand of these then it's all pretty much the same as any other PLC. Personally I find the ladder editor to be very basic and quite limited compared to others - but the Structured text is very good (TIA portal especially).

And there is a huge community to help you!

boneless said:

And there is a huge community to help you!

Click to expand...

Where would that be? Can you point me in right direction?

I need help with Siemens PLC and G120 VFD as decribed in http://www.plctalk.net/qanda/showthread.php?t=90356

Where would that be? Can you point me in right direction?

Click to expand...

Well there is here if someone has experience with the parts you describe. Otherwise there is here:

http://www.automation.siemens.com/WW/forum/guests/Conferences.aspx

@AdamG8GXP

Siemens has the by far best support I have experienced in the PLC world. Maybe because I live in europe? If you are a member on the forum (free) you can issue a support case by mail and Siemens will answer in 24hrs, by mail or phone. And oh yea, all the support is open instead of closed like RA... The forum can be a bit hard to navigate though :/

Originally posted by rQx:

The forum can be a bit hard to navigate though

Click to expand...

I guess that makes it like the rest of the website. I don't think I have ever personally downloaded anything from the website that I could use. I could never find what I needed. But as rQx said, the support is pretty good. I have only had to ask and the information I want appears in a short period of time.

As far as the plc experience goes I have mixed feelings. I definitely think the hardware platform is strong. The price/performance is pretty solid. I like the basic processor structure, although pointers are a bit of a hassle. The basic programming environment (editors) isn't too bad. The upper level development environment is where it falls flat, especially with the move to Portal. It is one of the least intuitive systems I have been exposed to. I think it's kind of like my toolbox at home. I know everything I need is in there. But I need to take everything out to find what I need. I have never clicked so much and ultimately found what I needed in the least expected place.

Generally I'm not big on training right out of the gate if you have any experience with program development. Most systems are similar enough to each other that I think you can work your way through them pretty easily based on past experience. I think training is more useful after you know what you are looking at and can ask intelligent questions. However, in this case, I suggest you get some up-front training just so you know where to go in the development environment to make things happen. As I said, the platform will do everything you need it to do. You just have to know where to go to make it happen.

Keith

Yea, the homepage is a joke to be honest. The easiset way of finding anything on siemens homepage is searching for it on google.

Personally my first PLC experience was with the TIA portal so my way of "evolving" as a programmer (self learned) is from it and I see alot of very good "shortcuts" and drag and drop features in the portal compared to other I have looked at after (Rockwell). Sure it will feel alot diffrent from other brands but once you use TIA portal other brands seem very stone age like

Karsten said:

Hello,

I have programmed most PLC brands Schneider(Unity,Somachine,Twido,Zelio), Allen Bradley(RS Logix5000), GE, Codesys and so on. Have never been at any training. Read the manual and then started programming and all these are similar and more or less ahere to IEC 61131-3 .

I have stayed away from Siemens and heard that it is quite different. But now I might have a project witwh S7-300 comming up. Is it really as different as I hear? I red about DBs. What's this?

Click to expand...

I used to love the S5 product back in the day, and always programmed in Statement List.
Always said Siemens was a programmers PLC.

S7 is very similar and powerful , but last version of Step 7 I used in 2010 was behind in the times as far as a GUI compared to other PLC products

The best thing about Siemens is its support and the fact that if you have a question, there is a huge community of programmers that will answer your questions through the siemens support website.
If you are not sending a man to Mars (lol) then most of the problems you encounter are already solved.
Siemens has great integration with other devices using profibus and profinet, but not as good when it comes to Modbus RTU or Modbus TCP/IP which is standard for most PLCs. This has changed with the latest products S7-1200 & S7-1500.
The other issue is that Step 7 v5.5 is partially combatible with IEC1131.
What I dont like about Step 7 in general is its FBD. In my mind FBD should be like Unity Pro's FBD or Codesys CFC.

I started programing Schneider PlCs and when I first got a project with a S7-300 PLC I started using MW as I should have done in a Schneider PLC. When I run out of MWs I realized what DBs are there for.
All in all I think Siemens PLCs are very good.
Espescially if you compare low end PLCs like S7-1200 and Twido (Twido=Waste of money and time).

Regards.

Originally posted by rQx:

...I see alot of very good "shortcuts" and drag and drop features in the portal ...

Click to expand...

Part of my problem is I don't use Siemens enough to know where the shortcuts are. So finding anything for me is painful.

I use Rockwell stuff enough that I barely touch my mouse when entering rungs. I do almost everything via command line editing using mnemonics. If I had a good enough memory to remember tagnames I would hardly touch the mouse at all. So, granted, product familiarity is very important. But I still contend that a user coming to a platform cold will have an easier time devising a working system with almost any other plc development environment (including Simatic Manager) relative to Portal.

Keith

S7 is also nice iec 61131 so no worries, and you can keep the old habbit of DB out of your program.
however i love codesys.