Peer-to-peer messaging with micrologix1000

JohnKhoury28

Member
J
Join Date
Mar 2014
Location
Currently in Lomita, CA
Posts
24
Could someone please guide me in the right direction? I currently own a 1761-L32BWB (Micrologix1000 processor) and a 1761-CBL-PM02 (programming cable). I have a c400 Panel display (2711C-T4T) on its way. What is the least inexpensive setup to successfully establish a peer-to-peer connectivity messaging from Micrologix1000 to c400 PanelView display while updating rungs in RSlogix500 Micro and downloading new programs to ML1000?
Is there any items that I am missing that are not listed above?
By the way, I also have a netgear router DGN2200v4 before I had my PLC equipment. What do I need to do at this point?
Also, are there sample HMI programs that were made in connected component workbench for the c400 HMI Display? Thank you for your time.
 
Come to think of it, it would be nice if all I need is 2711C-CBL-UU02 and make a point to point contact from the c400 HMI dsiplay to my laptop.
Please someone help as you get the chance. I need feedback. Thank you.
 
There is 1747-DPS1 port splitter, that allows connecting both HMI and programming PC simultaneously.
Micrologix1000 is now obsolete PLC with very limited capabilities.
In particular, it does not allow program edits on running PLC (a.k.a. online editing), if this is what you mean by "updating rungs".
Any change in the program requires complete download into stopped PLC.
 
Even if I put the micrologix1000 in an offline mode, can I setup my Netgear N300 wireless (DNG2200v4 router) to recognize the HMI display and the ML1000 simultaneously on a home network? Thanks.
 
Sorry for not being specific.
I mentioned the router because I was thinking about connecting the laptop to the router and also connecting the AB c400 HMI Display to the router at one point if need be. However, that might not be a point-to-point connection. I am still learning networking and need to know the specifics of networking in terms of having Allen Bradley devices communicating with each other. Therefore, resources on the specifics of networking would be greatly appreciated. There might be a chance I am over-thinking this. Thank you.
 
So some basics.
There are two communications protocols that the MicroLogix 1000’s use, DF1 which is a serial RS232 protocol and DH485 which is a proprietary “RS485 like” protocol (but it’s not RS485). DF1 will work in “full duplex” which is commonly mistaken for “peer to peer”. The difference is full duplex only has two devices while true peer to peer will accept multiple devices all talking to each other. To be honest I’m not fully up to speed with DH485 but for the purposes of this discussion it doesn’t matter mainly because the point I’m going to make is that neither protocol will work with a router. Routers are for Ethernet communications which is a completely different protocol all together.
I believe that what you are trying to do will work using DH485 (someone else chime in) but it will require a “Pic” box (or cable) which connects to your serial port on your PC and converts to DH485 to connect to the MicroLogix. Outside of that it gets beyond me mainly because I’ve never had to use DH485 other than to program MicroLogix 1000’s.
 
Today, the word networking is almost automatically associated with Ethernet connection.
However, if your goal is to have both HMI and PC plugged simultaneously, there is no need in Ethernet.
Note, I say plugged, not connected, as only one at a time can communicate with the PLC.
So, the PLC programming port just must be switched between the PC and the HMI.
This may be done automatically with the mentioned port splitter, or even manually with a mechanical multi-pole selector switch. The latter involves some DIY, to properly connect all cables to the switch.
 
Firejo said:
So some basics...
Click to expand...

Firejo,

I'm not sure about the level of misconception you are referring to regarding DF1 Full Duplex being incorrectly perceived as being a "peer-to-peer" connection, but I can tell you that it's officially known as a "point-to-point" connection, which is a direct connection between two devices using bi-directional communications. Perhaps it's the point-to-point reference that gets confused with peer-to-peer?

JohnKhoury28 said:
Could someone please guide me in the right direction? I currently own a 1761-L32BWB (Micrologix1000 processor) and a 1761-CBL-PM02 (programming cable). I have a c400 Panel display (2711C-T4T) on its way. What is the least inexpensive setup to successfully establish a peer-to-peer connectivity messaging from Micrologix1000 to c400 PanelView display while updating rungs in RSlogix500 Micro and downloading new programs to ML1000?
Is there any items that I am missing that are not listed above?...
Click to expand...

Option a) would need two 1761-NET-AIC+ interfaces.

Use the DH-485 protocol.

Connect ML1000 8-pin port to the 8-pin port on AIC+ using 1761-CBL-HM02.
Connect PC 9-pin port to 9-pin port on AIC+ using 1747-CP3.
Connect suitable Belden cable from phoenix plug on 1st AIC+ to same plug on 2nd AIC+.
Connect C400 9-pin port to 8-pin port on 2nd AIC+ using 1761-CBL-PM02.

PC can communicate with the controller and terminal.

Option b) would require a 1761-NET-ENI interface.

Use the DF1 protocol.

Connect ML1000 8-pin port to 9-pin port on ENI using 1761-CBL-PM02.
Connect Ethernet cable from ENI to router.
Connect C400 to router.
Connect PC to router.

PC can communicate with the controller and terminal.

Regards,
George
 
Geospark said:
Firejo,

I'm not sure about the level of misconception you are referring to regarding DF1 Full Duplex being incorrectly perceived as being a "peer-to-peer" connection, but I can tell you that it's officially known as a "point-to-point" connection, which is a direct connection between two devices using bi-directional communications. Perhaps it's the point-to-point reference that gets confused with peer-to-peer?



Option a) would need two 1761-NET-AIC+ interfaces.

Use the DH-485 protocol.

Connect ML1000 8-pin port to the 8-pin port on AIC+ using 1761-CBL-HM02.
Connect PC 9-pin port to 9-pin port on AIC+ using 1747-CP3.
Connect suitable Belden cable from phoenix plug on 1st AIC+ to same plug on 2nd AIC+.
Connect C400 9-pin port to 8-pin port on 2nd AIC+ using 1761-CBL-PM02.

PC can communicate with the controller and terminal.

Option b) would require a 1761-NET-ENI interface.

Use the DF1 protocol.

Connect ML1000 8-pin port to 9-pin port on ENI using 1761-CBL-PM02.
Connect Ethernet cable from ENI to router.
Connect C400 to router.
Connect PC to router.

PC can communicate with the controller and terminal.

Regards,
George
Click to expand...


From c400 to router and from PC to router: are those both using a Ethernet crossover cable? Does it have to be a special Ethernet cable? Have you worked with setup before? I just need to know that it will all functionally work together before I invest into it. Thank you for your time and feedback.
 
Both methods will work, but I would recommend using Option b) if the application is suitable. Distances over 100 metres can be a limiting factor for Ethenet media. Also very electrically noisy environments. If that's not a factor here, then it should be fine.

Most modern day Ethernet ports have Auto-MDIX as standard, which auto senses whether the cable attached is the correct type or not. If not correct the port automatically switches its signalling to correct it.

Switch: should be Auto-MDIX

PC: Ethernet port should also be Auto-MDIX. So either/or cable will work to the switch.

C400: Either a standard Ethernet cable or crossover cables such as 2711P-CBL-EX04 can be used when connecting directly to a controller or switch.

1761-NET-ENI: Ethernet port to 10/100-Base-T Ethernet switch cables utilize a straight-through pin-out (1-1, 2-2, 3-3, 6-6).
Direct point-to-point 10/100-Base-T cables connecting the ENI Ethernet port directly to another ENI Ethernet port, or a computer 10/100-Base-T port, require a cross-over pin-out (1-3, 2-6, 3-1, 6-2).

I have not personally setup a ML1000>ENI>C400&PC, but I have setup before a ML1000>ENI>PV300&PC. I have also had Option a) configured in one way or another in the past.

As I said, both methods will work and are fully supported by Rockwell.

Regards,
George
 
Geospark said:
Firejo,

I'm not sure about the level of misconception you are referring to regarding DF1 Full Duplex being incorrectly perceived as being a "peer-to-peer" connection, but I can tell you that it's officially known as a "point-to-point" connection, which is a direct connection between two devices using bi-directional communications. Perhaps it's the point-to-point reference that gets confused with peer-to-peer?
Click to expand...

DF1 Full Duplex is a “point to point” connection but technically, because there is no master or slave, it is a “peer to peer” connection as well. Peer to peer is communications without masters or slaves. All devices are “peers” to each other. I’ve always explained it this way; “point to point is peer to peer but not all peer to peer is point to point”.
I like the “NET-ENI” solution. It takes advantage of Ethernet’s ability to do peer to peer and gets around the DF1 Full Duplex limitation of point to point.
Then there is “DF1 Radio Modem” which is a true peer to peer protocol.:)
 
When we need to network a Micro Logix 1000 we now change it out to
a MLogix 1100 or even a ML1400 as the COST of a network splitter
AIC or NetENI, and also speed and reliability.

We feel it leaves us with a far superior situation and less heart ache
 
Geospark said:
Both methods will work, but I would recommend using Option b) if the application is suitable. Distances over 100 metres can be a limiting factor for Ethenet media. Also very electrically noisy environments. If that's not a factor here, then it should be fine.

Most modern day Ethernet ports have Auto-MDIX as standard, which auto senses whether the cable attached is the correct type or not. If not correct the port automatically switches its signalling to correct it.

Switch: should be Auto-MDIX

PC: Ethernet port should also be Auto-MDIX. So either/or cable will work to the switch.

C400: Either a standard Ethernet cable or crossover cables such as 2711P-CBL-EX04 can be used when connecting directly to a controller or switch.

1761-NET-ENI: Ethernet port to 10/100-Base-T Ethernet switch cables utilize a straight-through pin-out (1-1, 2-2, 3-3, 6-6).
Direct point-to-point 10/100-Base-T cables connecting the ENI Ethernet port directly to another ENI Ethernet port, or a computer 10/100-Base-T port, require a cross-over pin-out (1-3, 2-6, 3-1, 6-2).

I have not personally setup a ML1000>ENI>C400&PC, but I have setup before a ML1000>ENI>PV300&PC. I have also had Option a) configured in one way or another in the past.

As I said, both methods will work and are fully supported by Rockwell.

Regards,
George
Click to expand...


Can anyone please advise on the following:
Can I replace 1761-NET-ENI with this ethernet switch - http://www.directron.com/fs105.html?gsear=1? Connect AB PanelView C400 to ML1000 with a 1761-cbl-pm02 and have an ethernet cable go from the HMI display to the ethernet switch in the above link and have an ethernet cable from my personal PC to the ehernet switch. From there, connect the ethernet switch to my DGC2200 router. Would this setup establish a productive peer-to-peer messaging?
Thank you for your time.
 

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