Did I Goof?

I installed my first real PLC yesterday. Client is happy but learning curve was painful, after only previously using smart relays. They are so easy and logical but lacked I/O for this job. I used Omron CPM1A because I was near local dealer and needed to move fast to secure the job. Very helful and answered lots of dumb questions.
Thing is, after paying $900au for 40 I/O, and $220au for software, cable, books and dongle thingy, I found I have to write things like "TIM 001 #15" to get a timer in the picture. What is that? DOS? I'm starting to like it now, but also suspect I may have been sold some out-dated gear. Is this typical of other brands and prices?
Realise I should have come here first for opinions, but there'll be a next timeI guess.
Regards and Thanks, Jon T.

I don't know what the exchange rate is, but you probably were okay.

Factor 1 - Most important - Customer Is HAPPY!

Factor 2 - you were able to get the stuph nearby and quickly.

A lot of people on here like omron, I am not real familiar with them.

I recently turned down an interview with them to be a top level plc guru in their customer service department.

I like FANUC and also Moeller, so I would have a tendency to lean towards them, but I don't know how they compare price and availabilty.
i think they are much easir to program.

regards......casey

No, you did not get out of date gear.

The software is obviously Cx-Programmer, probably version 4.01 (the latest).

When selecting a function, you can click on "detail" and a selection screen will pop up. You can select the required function and fill in the form.

Most of us regular users love the typing box as it saves time. Just type in what you want, as you found out. Save a heap of time if you know what you want to do.

The detail button is handy for some of the more powerful PLCs as there are about 400 odd functions and we cannot remember them all. Old timers disease. It is great to be able to type in > D2010 #37, for example. This is a compare (symbol maths) that checks to see if the value in DM2010 (register) is greater than 37. The # indicates a BCD value.& indicates a binary value.

You can set up the program the way you want it to look and work by going to "Tools" at the top of the page and selecting "options" or "keyboard mapping". You can then map short cut keys to perform commonly used functions, change the look and feel of the package, change fonts etc etc. Very powerful tool once you are used to it.

I might add that I write a lot of code in a year and find Cx-Programmer the best software for development of programs that I have used, by far. No drag and drop or any of that nonsense just good, practical fast function keys. For example, I map a normally open contact to F2. Press F2 and type in the contact number I require. If I wish to use input 0000.01, I just type in "1" and the program does the rest for me. No nonsense with rack numbers, slot numbers, I, Q, X, Y, or %, just a number. Think of the larger PLCs as a huge meory area of numbers. You use them as you wish.

In the larger PLCs you will find addressing a little confusing at first. I use the CJ1 and CS1 all the time. I can, for example, start the first rack at channel 1500, or leave it at the default of channel 0. The point is that I get to choose where I wish to map my I/O.

Say I select default of channel 0, the first input card ia a 16 bit card and uses channel 00000, bits 00000.00 to 00000.15. The next card is a 32 bit output card. It will use channels 00001 and 00002, bits 00 to 15. The next card is a 64 bit input card. It will use channels 00003 to 00006, bits 00 to 15. If I wish to address the first channel bit 10 of the 64 bit card, I just type in the number 310, the program does the rest. The next card is an analogue input card. It will default to starting channel 2000, but I can allocate a different channel number as the starting channel for the card. The card will then use the next 10 channels. Very flexible.

I do not believe that you have made the wrong choice. the software is extremely powerful, flexible and programmable. The PLCs available go up to the latest very fast processors with an enormous array of functions and I/O capability to make life easier. They are competitively priced, although not the cheapest. You have a very long learning curve with any brand of PLC if you have only programmed smart relays. They are fine for what they are designed to do but are necessarily very limited in their capabilities.

The CPM1A is the simplest of the Omron real PLCs and is a good starting place for you to learn. It has fixed I/O allocations. One of the great things about this PLC is that it is not crippled, as are many other brands of micro PLC, by a lack of online programming functionality. I refuse to buy any PLC that does not have online programming available. They make commissioning a nightmare and very slow, quite frankly. Make a program change, stop the PLC, download the changed program, start the PLC. PAIFULL. I have used the Schneider Twido, for example. Great concept, AWFUL software and no online programming. The AB Micrologix has better software, although not as good as CX-Programmer, but NO online programming. I have dismissed both of these from my list of PLCs until they introduce online programming.

I also refuse to use the European style "drag and drop" nonsense, if given a choice. Do not intend to get RSI from clicking a "B*****" mouse. Function keys are far faster, easier to use and easier on the wrist by miles. No function keys, no use program.

Another thing to mention is if you have CX-Programmer, it will program ALL the modern Omron PLCs, with the exception of the smart relay. You do not even need software for that, just use the buttons on the front panel. No extra cost involved, no having to pay out HUGE bucks for another program because you wish to use a different PLC in a particular brand. The only exception to the rule, at this stage, is a separate set of software for the function block PLC. This is starting to be incorporated in the next revision of CX from all reports. By the way, networking etc is also incorporated in the CX program. Controller Link, Ethernet etc connectivity all built in. No extra to pay.

Welcome to the world of real PLCs. I am sure you will enjoy it as you become more proficient.

By the way, here is a link to a good learning site for Omron PLCs. The PLC disussed is the CPM1A. Enjoy.

Omron CPM1A Training

do not rush first job but hey now it is over.

yes tim 0001 is very normal.
if the language is easy the program is fast.

customer happy fine you happy better.
first things are difficult. riding bike too.
do not go back to customer, just phone him even if you found errors in program. he will live with them. if customer has problems he will call you. After a week or so depending on type of installation go back and write down what you should have done different.
then rewrite the program and ask customer to test it.

Ah thanks guys, feeling better now.
Casey Guess you're right. Hey, loved the Moeller Easy.
BobB Gidday. Thanks for taking the time for such in depth response. Is printing as I type and will check link provided. Yes twido has had a bad rap in this room so wont touch that, but zelio is excellent.
Shooter Yes, you're right, he's happy. He is a very trusting soul and I know all I need do is keep him that way with a little effort.
Thanks again. Will persevere with this crazy language.
Regards
Jon T

Zelio and Omron Zen, similar animals except Zen is expandable. The latest base unit is 20 I/O. You can put 3 expansion units on that. Sometimes saves having to go to a larger PLC for a small job. Worth a look. I stopped using the Zelio because the Zen was expandable enough for small pool systems. A lot cheaper than the CPM1A.

Moeller Easy similar beast as well. All smart relays are similar. Very few are expandable.

If you require more help, please shout. The link I left for you is very good. Good explanations about PLC processes etc and how they work.

the old phart, is long winded. I got old just reading his post.


Willpower100

WP100

In reference to BobB

Long Winded? Maybe.

Knowledgeable? Yes!

You're just out of shape.

Run two miles, don't visit the thread with the beer discussion, and sleep in tomorrow morning.

It only gets better???

have a good one......casey

Well he put me at ease anyway. Actually I sent him an email but still no answer. So will ask here.
I used outputs 12.00 onwards as internal markers/aux relays because I could not find any. Only channel 10 and 11 have real outputs. Works OK but probably not wise. Where are markers really?
Also, we have a very brief input which is not registering. I read and find about quick response inputs at IR00003 to IR00006. Where are these thingys and how can I use them. Can speed up machine if I find out.
Thanks again
Jon T

Hi Jon

I can understand your painful learning curve with Omron PLC.
You lucky you got one of the easy to learn and program.
The first thing is to read the book of the CPM most of what you need is there.
I canot count how much Omron PLCs I installed in the last years
But now I started my first project with AD DL-06, I pass through this curve again.My advice take the book and read even you dont understsnd all what the book talking about, but when you will need something you will remember it exist.
Memory structure is very important in evry PLC.You need to look for that first.
My last advice get the paper book not PDF.
after you read the book the pdf is easy, for first time paper book is better.
Attaced how to set high speed inputs, pay atention you need to set it
not lower then your scan time.
Also attached the working memory area for the CPM/

Good luck

Attached the memory pic

Bit of half fair mickey fellas. See how many of you know what I mean by that.

Have since answered the e-mail with same info as Arik. Have been finishing a control panel that has to be delivered tomorrow.

jonton
As you live in the best country in the world, although not the best state, contact your Omron distributor (Control Logic I think) and tell them to get there a***s into gear and give you the Omron digital library on CD. Version 3.3 is the latest. Has all PLC manuals, brochures, short forms and lots of other information. It is free.
I do not know if it is available anywhere else but it is a great source of information.

For those who do not live in the best country in the world we have several states. One is Western Australia or WA. It is known as "wait awhile". Another is South Australia or SA. It is known as "stay awhile". Another is Tasmania where they count fingers and toes with their relatives. Queensland, jonton's home state, is known as "cane toad country". Things happen very slowly there. If it were any slower it would go backwards. Bit like "moonshine" territory in the US. Lovely when you are driving along a freeway at 100 kPh and a sugar farmer decides to pull out in front of you on his tractor. He thens proceeds to hog the whole road at 5 kPh. I should explain kPh = kilometres per hour.

jonton
I think you have a problem with your e-mail. Came back "user unknown".
Regards

Casey,
Had to chuckle at your last little bit of good advice.
ArikBY,
Yes I agree about reading the book supplied first. I wouldn't be game to come in here asking questions without doing something for myself first. Seen that happen.
I will go to laptop next and look at page you gave "settings/interupt/refresh" and see what I can do there.
The next page "memory area structure" you gave is one I stared at for ages but simply could not understand, since there was no mention of my markers. You circled IR work area and it looks to me that for an internal coil I would address this as 20.00 Will try this shortly.
Thanks ArikBY, think it may be slowly dawning on you that I might be better employed in work of a more physical nature.
BobB,
Sorry if I gave a bad email addy. One thing I found is having a ".net.au" on the end, often gets overlooked.
You shouldn outa said that about cane toads Bob you ****roach. We get things done at 5kph okay.
Okay, Off now to experiment
Jon T

OK, work area relays 200.00 to 231.15. Brain really hurting now.
Still don't understand what to do on the input/refresh setting ArikBY circled for me. My input 00.06 is the brief pulse that gets missed. I'm seaching to find info on "Input Constant" without joy.
Any help here greatly appreciated.
Jon T