OT Power Cable Sizing in US

Manglemender

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Jul 2007
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Lancashire
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Whilst not a PLC question, I know that members here have a great diversity/depth of knowledge.

One of my current projects is destined for the USA. It has an 800A MCCB as the main isolator and the customer is asking if the MCCB terminals can withstand 90 degree because, if they can then the installer can use a smaller cable.

Does this make sense to anyone?

The MCCB is AB140GM5X3 and the specifications make no mention of terminal temperature.

Thanks in advance,

Nick
 
Manglemender,

there are many things that you must also consider.
1. terminal lugs and connection to breaker - temperature rating will be marked on the lugs.
2. an 800 amp breaker is rated for 80% full load
3. derate the wire based on the number of current carrying conductors.
4. wire size determines conduit size.
5. temperature of where the wire is installed.

all components must be ul approved in the US.

hope this helps,
james
 
Thanks for the replies.

The spec sheet for the isolator makes no mention of the terminal temperature and tech support weren't able to help either. The unit is built to EN60847-2 which states that the terminal temperature shall not exceed 70C at full load. It is also certified to UL489.

I've passsed on the MCCB details to our customer and their installer will have to figure out the correct cable to use.

Many thanks,

Nick
 
It sounds to me like they want to use XPLE insulated cables that have a 90 deg C full load temperature rating as opposed to PVC insulated with a 70 deg C temperature rating thus allowing smaller Cross Sectional Area cables to be used. I doubt that they would run the cable at the 90 deg limit, it is more likely that someone is taking the spec too literally.
I would drop them a line and ask them to clarify.

Steve
 
I just went through this on my current project. The electrical installation must comply with the National Electric Code (NEC).

For an 800A circuit, the NEC (Table 310.16) allows the use of two parallel 600 kcmil conductors, each is rated at 420A at 75°C. If you could use 90°C conductors you could downsize each to 500 kcmil, each rated at 430A. This would save in material expenses during installation (conductors and conduits).

The problem is that, per the NEC, conductors must be matched to the temperature rating of the terminal to which it is connected. i.e. 75°C conductors must be connected to 75°C terminals and 90°C conductors must be connected to 90°C terminals.

The reason that MCCB spec sheet doesn't mention terminal temperature is that when connecting to breakers rated above 100A the conductor must be rated for at least 75°C. [ NEC 110.14(C)(1)(b)]

(b) Termination provisions of equipment for circuits rated over 100 amperes, or marked for conductors larger than 1 AWG, shall be used only for one of the following:
(1) Conductors rated 75°C (167°F)
(2) Conductors with higher temperature ratings, provided the ampacity of such conductors does not exceed the 75°C (167°F) ampacity of the conductor size used, or up to their ampacity if the equipment is listed and identified for use with such conductors

So, if no temperature is listed it is 75°C.

From the article rootboy cited: "No distribution or utilization equipment is listed and identified for the use of 90 °C wire at its 90 °C ampacity." BTW, Jim Pauley, the engineer who wrote that article is now President of the NFPA, the organization which writes the National Electric Code. Manufacturers simply don't make 90°C equipment.

I also have to wonder what customer is planning on doing on the other end as you run into the same problem at both ends of course.

I would definitely read the article by Jim Pauley that rootboy posted as it does explain the situation very well.

Now, to file under the "customer is alway right," if they insist they want to do this, that article shows how you can use a set of terminals rated for 90°C, your customer connects here. Then you connect these terminals using 90°C conductors but sized as if they 75°C (2 x 600 kcmil from my above example) to the MCCB.

I would of course lobby heavily for your customer not to do this. Sure they save a few pennies up front, but for the lifetime of the equipment they will have to endure the costs of wasted electricity because of voltage drop. 500 kcmil wire has about 15% higher resistance than 600 kcmil.

Side note: I believe the Part Number you posted only includes the frame and no trip unit. i.e. it's not a complete part number for a breaker.
 
Thanks Timbert for your comprehensive reply.

"The customer is always right" but I'm with you on the folly of saving a few pennies on the installation.

Nick
 

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