Help with powerflex 40.

bobwithdana

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Join Date
Dec 2003
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california
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239
Just installed new powerflex 40 next to an existing one. Used the same logic. Only one jumper on the terminal and all control is ethernet port. This is in Contrologix. when I issue a run forward command sometimes it runs forward and sometimes reverse. The logic is correct and only the Forward bit MC_MSC2_012A:O.Forward is true. What am I missing here?

Thanks
 
Three suggestions.

#1 is the wiring on the drive the same pin for pin and polarity wise?

#2 check the settings on the drives themselves.

#3 could the motor to the new drive have a bad winding / start cap?

hope this helps,
james
 
Do you ever switch between Forward and Reverse in logic ?

If so, it's possible that your network connection is grabbing the Module-Defined Tag value right in the middle of a rung or between the rungs that switch between Forward and Reverse.

My standard method is to solve all the logic for my drives and then perform a Copy Synchronous (CPS) from a UDT holding those tags to the actual drive's I/O object tags.

It's also possible for stray voltages to trigger PowerFlex 4-series inputs. Jumpering the unused ones to DC Common can't hurt.
 
Motor would have to be 3 phase, a VFD can't run a cap start single phase motor, so there would be no starting cap.

My possibilities, in order of likelihood:

A) If it was a bad winding or connection in the motor and is single phasing, the motor would would act like this for a while (hard to say how long) until the drive sees excessive load current and trips off on overload. When an AC motor gets single phase power, it doesn't know which direction to spin, but it also cannot create full torque either.

B) The other issue that can result in strange operation is if you have the drive programmed to be in SVC (Sensorless Vector Control) mode, which is the factory default setting (parameter A125 = 1), but you have not performed the Autotune procedure from A127. For SVC to function, the drive needs an accurate mathematical model of the motor electrical circuit, Autotuning is how it gets that information. Without that, the VFD is working from an erroneous motor model based on the factory test bench motor and no two motors have the same electrical properites, so the VFD doesn't know how to make yours work correctly in SVC mode. You either have to perform the Autotune, or change to having A127 = 0 to put the VFD in V/Hz mode, in which it doesn't care about the motor model (but you get less accurate performance). We don't know what it is running but if it is a centrifugal pump or fan, you don't need SVC mode, I would go that route.

C) Does it actually run in reverse, or does it BEGIN to run in reverse and you immediately shut it down? Because if you have the "flying start" enabled, sometimes it will move briefly in reverse when starting from a dead stop. It's a known quirk of the technology that allows flying start to work combined with characteristics of some motors that have high residual magnetism when the motor is at standstill. The flying start is looking for back emf to be able to catch a spinning motor, but if the motor is not spinning, yet has high residual magnetism, the drive can sometimes interpret that as it moving. So when you turn it on from a dead stop, it energizes the motor and doesn't know the rotation direction yet. It might reverse it for a second or two before it figures it out, but often times when people see that, they panic and shut it down before it gets a chance to correct itself. The factory default setting is for flying start (A096) is Off, so someone would have had to turn it On. If the replacement drive was not fresh out of the box, it may have had that feature enabled in a previous life.

I always start off by doing a factory reset to defaults before using a used drive, or one I suspect may have been returned to a distributor from the field.
 
Outstanding info, jraef ! I found myself looking for the Upvote button.
That's assuming it's not one of your issues, which were also good points. Logic issues in the PLC can be eliminated as a possibility by changing the drive to local keypad control and seeing if it acts the same way. If it does act the same, it's not the logic in the PLC, it's an issue with the VFD or motor/connection. If it doesn't act the same, i.e. everything works normally, then it IS likely a logic issue.
 
Guys thanks for the info. Good stuf here. I been doing this for a long time and thought I was pretty good at this. I know my Logic is ok, I know the Flying start is not enabled but Jaref made some good points I need to check out. In order to go home tonight I switched the wiring back to the Soft starter that originally controlled this motor. The VFD is still configyred properly in the I/O tree so I will connect a spare motor to it and do some testing. Thanks for all the info. Ill let you know what I find.

Thanks again Bob
 
Do you ever switch between Forward and Reverse in logic ?

If so, it's possible that your network connection is grabbing the Module-Defined Tag value right in the middle of a rung or between the rungs that switch between Forward and Reverse.

My standard method is to solve all the logic for my drives and then perform a Copy Synchronous (CPS) from a UDT holding those tags to the actual drive's I/O object tags.

It's also possible for stray voltages to trigger PowerFlex 4-series inputs. Jumpering the unused ones to DC Common can't hurt.


KEN, Thanks for the reply Your highly respected in my book for sure. Yes I put AFI in every rung that runs this motor in reverse. I also confirmed several things in the outlink that puzzles me. The commanded direction and accual direction is always forward. The reverse is never enabled. Also even when I go to Drive Exeutive and disable the Reverse Enable the Motor still cant make up its mind. Enabling the Run Forward command will run the motor 3 out of 4 time in Forward and 1 out of 4 in Reverse. Even when the Motor has a run forward cammand and its running in reverse the PF40P does not eluminate the REV LED in the display.
 
KEN, after re reading your comments I was thinking. My Cat5 ethernet is running in the same Panduit as the 480VAC wiring and none of the unused inputs ar connected to the DC Common. Also I am using the COP instruction and not the CPS instructions. I will look further into this in the morning. Thanks everyone. This is the best forum forus for sure.
 

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