Help:sequence Control Circuit

Eslam Marwan

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Join Date
Jan 2015
Location
cairo
Posts
19
hello every one, i need a control circuit which can make a changeable sequence with 3 motors by any device
for example i need to start pumps with a pressure switch in this sequence pump1 then pump2 then pump3

after all pumps switch off and at the next start the sequence must be Pump2 then pump3 then pump1

after all pumps switch off and at the next start the sequence must be Pump3 then pump1 then pump2

and so on

by using single line diagram classic control or by ladder diagram
 
i have this circuit which control sequence on 2 pumps

44iusflav
44iusflav
image.png


and i need to add another pump in this sequence
 
It looks as the only way K2 (second pump?) will run is if K1 (first pump?)is OFF, but the only way K2 can start is if R is ON, which can only happen if K1 is ON.
Suggest you,
Revise control method, are the 3 pumps all required to pump up to pressure?
Put some Overload's in the circuits.
Add timers to stop instant starting of 2-3 motors.
 
K1 is first to come on, which is pump #2
R is pump #1
K2 is pump #3

K1, R, then when level raises above X, only R runs.
Then if pressure drops K2 and R run.
The only time K1 comes back on is if the system is shut off unless F comes from another contact upstream.

This looks like a diagram to control the level of a tank but R is always running... Missing more details?

What you asked for is not how the system currently is running. In order to suggest a control scheme the details of why the 4th pump is added may be needed.
 
Last edited:
K1 is first to come on, which is pump #2
R is pump #1
K2 is pump #3

K1, R, then when level raises above X, only R runs.
Then if pressure drops K2 and R run.
The only time K1 comes back on is if the system is shut off unless F comes from another contact upstream.

Actually the way I read this diagram is:

R = Relay used for flip-flop to sequence the 2 pumps.
K1 = Pump #1
K2 = Pump #2

When K1 gets energized it seals itself in and allows R coil to be energized at the same time.
When pressure switch opens K1 seal-in is broken and pump stops.

When pressure switch closes again, R is now energized so circuit will not flow to K1, this time and will flow to energize K2 coil which will seal itself in and de-engergize R coil at the same time.
When pressure switch opens it will break the seal-in for K2 and pump will stop.

The next time pressure switch closes R is not energized so we start all over again with K1 energizing and running pump # 1.

Just quickly off the top of my head you could add the 3rd pump in much the same way by adding another holding relay and working this into the process using 2 relays and 3 pump contactors.

It might even be simpler than that but I would need to sit down and work it out to be sure.

OP you say you can use single line or Ladder.
Is this to be hard wired or are you going to use this control through a PLC?
And if you are going to use PLC, what brand and model?

If I get some time later I can put a electrical scematic drawing together for 3 pumps for you.

But if you are doing this through a plc then just writting the ladder would save some time.



Edit: I got wrapped up in your drawing here and then went back and read your first post.
A couple of questions have come to mind now.

1) Are you wanting to run more than one pump at the same time???? (Because your drawing does not reflect this.)

2) If you do want to run more than one pump at a time to maintain a certain constant pressure, then you will need multiple pressure switches or a combination of pressure switches and timers OR an analog pressure switch and do the entire control through a PLC.

3) If you want to change the run sequence of the pumps as you say in post 1 then PLC is the way to go for sure.

4) You will also want to add logic so that if a pump Overload is tripped or a breaker is off on one pump the run logic will be passed off to the next pump in the scheduled sequence.

Please provide more detail as to what you actually have now and what it is you want to achieve as and end result and what equipment and method you plan to use to achieve this result.

BCS
 
Last edited:
Actually the way I read this diagram is:

R = Relay used for flip-flop to sequence the 2 pumps.
K1 = Pump #1
K2 = Pump #2

When K1 gets energized it seals itself in and allows R coil to be energized at the same time.
When pressure switch opens K1 seal-in is broken and pump stops.

When pressure switch closes again, R is now energized so circuit will not flow to K1, this time and will flow to energize K2 coil which will seal itself in and de-engergize R coil at the same time.
When pressure switch opens it will break the seal-in for K2 and pump will stop.

The next time pressure switch closes R is not energized so we start all over again with K1 energizing and running pump # 1.

Just quickly off the top of my head you could add the 3rd pump in much the same way by adding another holding relay and working this into the process using 2 relays and 3 pump contactors.

It might even be simpler than that but I would need to sit down and work it out to be sure.

OP you say you can use single line or Ladder.
Is this to be hard wired or are you going to use this control through a PLC?
And if you are going to use PLC, what brand and model?

If I get some time later I can put a electrical scematic drawing together for 3 pumps for you.

But if you are doing this through a plc then just writting the ladder would save some time.



Edit: I got wrapped up in your drawing here and then went back and read your first post.
A couple of questions have come to mind now.

1) Are you wanting to run more than one pump at the same time???? (Because your drawing does not reflect this.)

2) If you do want to run more than one pump at a time to maintain a certain constant pressure, then you will need multiple pressure switches or a combination of pressure switches and timers OR an analog pressure switch and do the entire control through a PLC.

3) If you want to change the run sequence of the pumps as you say in post 1 then PLC is the way to go for sure.

4) You will also want to add logic so that if a pump Overload is tripped or a breaker is off on one pump the run logic will be passed off to the next pump in the scheduled sequence.

Please provide more detail as to what you actually have now and what it is you want to achieve as and end result and what equipment and method you plan to use to achieve this result.

BCS

Ahh, I missed k2 dropping R. I concur. However, two pumps run at the same time, then 1 pump, then 2 pumps then all over again.
 
Ahh, I missed k2 dropping R. I concur. However, two pumps run at the same time, then 1 pump, then 2 pumps then all over again.

Certainly not trying to be confrontational, but look at the drawing a little closer.

K1 can not energize if K2 is engergize and K2 can not energize if K1 is energized.

Remeber R is not a starter coil in this drawing, only a relay used to sequence the flip-flop sequence between the 2 pump motors.

So by this drawing there is no way that both pumps can run at the same time.

Also it is a huge leap (although doable) from what this drawing is to what I think the OP is requesting.

Even this drawing is lacking elements to insure that at least one pump runs should the other pump be unable to start for any reason.

BCS
 
Last edited:
Certainly not trying to be confrontational, but look at the drawing a little closer.

K1 can not energize if K2 is engergize and K2 can not energize if K1 is energized.

Remeber R is not a starter coil in this drawing, only a relay used to sequence the flip-flop sequence between the 2 pump motors.

So by this drawing there is no way that both pumps can run at the same time.

Also it is a huge leap (although doable) from what this drawing is to what I think the OP is requesting.

Even this drawing is lacking elements to insure that at least one pump runs should the other pump be unable to start for any reason.

BCS

No offense taken. I am too quick to be ignorant at times.

K1, R
Level rises
R
Level drops
K2
Level rises
all off
So.. 2,1,1,0 2,1,1,0 2,1,1,0
 
No offense taken. I am too quick to be ignorant at times.

K1, R
Level rises
R
Level drops
K2
Level rises
all off
So.. 2,1,1,0 2,1,1,0 2,1,1,0



??????????????????????????????????????????

Not sure how you are coming up with all that.

Look at my first post, I spell it out pretty clear.
If you still have trouble with it after looking at it again let me know and I will be glad to help walk you though it.

BCS
 
Last edited:
I think you still believe that R is a starter for a pump.

It is NOT.

K1 and K2 are the only thing that are starter coils for 2 individual pumps.

If R were a pump:
Then when the Pressure Switch would close for the first time it would energize K1.
This would in turn energize R
When the pressure switch opened again K1 would drop out and R would continue to run. If R was a pump and was sufficent to keep the pressure above the pressure switch cut in then R would continue to run for ever and over fill your process.

So you see then R does not control a pump, it is only used as a flip flop to sequence pump #1 (K1) and pump #2 (K2)

And by this drawing only one of the two pumps can ever run at a time.

Look at it close and follow the process, you will get it.

BCS
 
Last edited:
Did I do it again?!?

Power on and p closed
K1 comes on, latched in.
R comes on and latches.
K1 + R=2 pumps

P opens and drops K1, R still on.
R= 1 pump

P closes and K2 comes on dropping R
K2= 1 pump

P opens and drops K2. Nothing on.
0

2,1,1,0

Oh my... I assumed all 3 were pumps/relays driving pumps.

I better stick to breathing.
 

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