Red Lion, Data Station Plus

Hello everyone, just looking for a bit of help. I am a bit of a noob to Data Station Plus, but I have lots of Codesys programming experience. Here is what I have.

I have a Red Lion Data Station Plus with a Can Open option card to communicate with an IFM PLC.

I want to run a virtual HMI on a PC using the Crimson 3 software and control my operation running on the PLC.

My question is how do I start the Can Open comms on the DSP. Basically I have done communications between IFM PLC's and IFM HMI's using network variables in the past.

In the DSP, they are asking for PDO's and SDO's. My guess at this point, to do this simply would be to create Network Variable Lists on the IFM PLC. The identifier for the network variable in the PLC would be the added to the start address in a block under Block1 in the DSP.

If this is not how to do this, how do I go about accessing my variables in the PLC with the DSP.

I am guessing the Ethernet connection to the PC for the virtual HMI should be fairly easy to configure. But I may have questions about that as well.

Any help would be appreciated.

hi,

I looked into using CAN option card a few months back but the project never took off. I had a brief discussion with Red Lion tech support about it and what you have said is what they advised me.

To connect the DSP to a PC you just need to ensure your PC is on the same domain as the DSP, and the Web Server is enabled with all control (assuming you want to control it from the PC) under the web server tab on the navigation pane.

Fluid Power Nerd said:

Hello everyone, just looking for a bit of help. I am a bit of a noob to Data Station Plus, but I have lots of Codesys programming experience. Here is what I have.

I have a Red Lion Data Station Plus with a Can Open option card to communicate with an IFM PLC.

I want to run a virtual HMI on a PC using the Crimson 3 software and control my operation running on the PLC.

My question is how do I start the Can Open comms on the DSP. Basically I have done communications between IFM PLC's and IFM HMI's using network variables in the past.

In the DSP, they are asking for PDO's and SDO's. My guess at this point, to do this simply would be to create Network Variable Lists on the IFM PLC. The identifier for the network variable in the PLC would be the added to the start address in a block under Block1 in the DSP.

If this is not how to do this, how do I go about accessing my variables in the PLC with the DSP.

I am guessing the Ethernet connection to the PC for the virtual HMI should be fairly easy to configure. But I may have questions about that as well.

Any help would be appreciated.

Click to expand...

I am not familiar with CAN, and your situation may be different from most, but in *most* situations, you do not need Gateway Blocks. Those are typically only used when you are using the DSPxx as a protocol converter. I use them quite often in this manner, but for most applications you simply add the Driver, use the device that is automatically created under it by configuring it with the proper communications settings, and then add Tags using that device as the Source.

It is very simple. Take what you have, go over to Data Tags and add an appropriate type of Tag. Then choose DEV1 as the Source and a window will pop up for you to "Select Address for SDO Master". After setting the correct address, simple set up the Format and any other setting that you want under the Tag. You will then put that tag on your Display Pages to be shown in the Web Server.

Again, you don't (in most cases) need to set up a Gateway Block and it will simply confuse and frustrate you. Just delete the Gateway Block and start setting up tags. I don't know if other devices make it hard so people want to start adding Gateway Blocks to handle communications, but Crimson 3.0 makes it easy.

JHarbin said:

Again, you don't (in most cases) need to set up a Gateway Block and it will simply confuse and frustrate you. .

Click to expand...

IMO it depends on how many tags you want to link and what sort of mapping you want to do. If you want to do bit level mapping or have large amount of tags to map then blocks are easier. Because you can simply double click on a tag to map. Rather than selecting the data source for every individual tag.


https://www.dropbox.com/s/ns14mo2s91tqpyy/C3.png?dl=0

DLMUK said:

IMO it depends on how many tags you want to link and what sort of mapping you want to do. If you want to do bit level mapping or have large amount of tags to map then blocks are easier. Because you can simply double click on a tag to map. Rather than selecting the data source for every individual tag.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ns14mo2s91tqpyy/C3.png?dl=0

Click to expand...

But what he wants to do is put tags on a screen, not map them for something else to pick up (unless I am misreading it).

I'll leave it to the OP to decide if my suggestion meets his needs or not.

JHarbin said:

But what he wants to do is put tags on a screen, not map them for something else to pick up (unless I am misreading it).

I'll leave it to the OP to decide if my suggestion meets his needs or not.

Click to expand...

Didn't mean to offend. I was just sticking my oar in to give the OP more info.

DLMUK said:

Didn't mean to offend. I was just sticking my oar in to give the OP more info.

Click to expand...

You didn't offend - I'm just saying I don't know what he is *actually* trying to do - I made an assumption and my response was based on that assumption and I'll wait for his response.

Just a little background. I've configured hundreds of Crimson 2.0 and 3.0 devices and followed many Redlion threads on this site. I have seen many situations where new users start with Gateway Blocks when they don't need to. BTW - I've been working on a system this morning that *does* need Gateway Blocks.

I'm sorry for sounding offended - we're all trying to help.

Folks I appreciate the help. As mentioned in one of your responses, I want to put the tags on the screen, and not convert between different devices. As for a driver, there is an SDO master listed in Crimson that I am leaning towards using.

In the IFM PLC I have function blocks to read and write to individual SDO's that will help on that end.

I will have approximately 60 variables in total that I want to monitor and write to from the Virtual HMI. So not too many.

So I am still a bit fussy regarding whether to use gateway blocks or not.

Thanks

Nerd

Fluid Power Nerd said:

Folks I appreciate the help. As mentioned in one of your responses, I want to put the tags on the screen, and not convert between different devices. As for a driver, there is an SDO master listed in Crimson that I am leaning towards using.

In the IFM PLC I have function blocks to read and write to individual SDO's that will help on that end.

I will have approximately 60 variables in total that I want to monitor and write to from the Virtual HMI. So not too many.

So I am still a bit fussy regarding whether to use gateway blocks or not.

Thanks

Nerd

Click to expand...

One more thing to watch out for. Using the virtual pages through the website in the DSPxx is tedious. It odd a lot of click wait, click, wait. I really don't recommend it. It odd much better for monitoring.

Jharbin, what would be a better way to monitor and control then, run the Crimson software on the PC and view the pages in online monitoring?

Fluid Power Nerd said:

Jharbin, what would be a better way to monitor and control then, run the Crimson software on the PC and view the pages in online monitoring?

Click to expand...

The Emulator works just like the device so there is no benefit to doing that.

My recommend using a SCADA that is designed for the purpose. I see the web functionality in the Redlion as a *great* monitoring tool but nothing more. An occasional write is simply an as needed thing.

I doubt that the custom webpages work any differently, but someone may be able to speak to that.

Well thats not good news, the guys from the dealer for Red Lion said there would be no problem.

My main concern is that I will want to log data on the DSP to excel files. The operation of the system is not speed dependent as far as the HMI goes. Basically they will set up a few parameters on the HMI and hit the start button, the PLC takes over the process at that point and controls things.

I just need to be able to data log quite a few points to the Compact Flash on the DSP.

I will try and set this system up later on today for a test. Thanks for the help so far, I will know doubt have more questions later.

Cheers.

Fluid Power Nerd said:

Well thats not good news, the guys from the dealer for Red Lion said there would be no problem.

My main concern is that I will want to log data on the DSP to excel files. The operation of the system is not speed dependent as far as the HMI goes. Basically they will set up a few parameters on the HMI and hit the start button, the PLC takes over the process at that point and controls things.

I just need to be able to data log quite a few points to the Compact Flash on the DSP.

I will try and set this system up later on today for a test. Thanks for the help so far, I will know doubt have more questions later.

Cheers.

Click to expand...

Logging data to the CompactFlash is a great feature of the DSP family.

I don't know what the driving force behind not having a display was, but I would have put in a G3xx display and done all of this using it. They would have just needed to walk up to the Display and input the values there. Then they could have monitored the system remotely (and pulled the CSV files remotely).

The issue that I was speaking of earlier is that you have to use the Mouse clicking on buttons that show up in the web page to enter any information that you want to enter remotely. You can't use your PC Keyboard. It is *certainly* possible, but you need to wait between clicks to be sure that it "took".

I am a huge fan of the Redlion DSP and G3xx stuff!

It was the customers idea to not use a real HMI, if it was me I would have put a 12" touchscreen directly connected to the PLC.

Either way, this is what I am working with, I am not too concerned with a bit of delay in the system. That I can live with because once the system starts, its fully automatic.

So what do you think, blocks or no blocks for this system?

Thanks,

Fluid Power Nerd said:

It was the customers idea to not use a real HMI, if it was me I would have put a 12" touchscreen directly connected to the PLC.

Either way, this is what I am working with, I am not too concerned with a bit of delay in the system. That I can live with because once the system starts, its fully automatic.

So what do you think, blocks or no blocks for this system?

Thanks,

Click to expand...

Based on what you have told me, no blocks - definitely no blocks. Just set up the tags as I described. You are going to need to put them on your screens anyway.