SCADA options.

Elcan · Jun 1, 2015

Hello all,
Sooner or later I will be using SCADA, and I'm evaluating which piece of software to use.
It will be for small to medium size projects, nothing too sophisticated, and I won't have a big budget. And here's my first question: does it worth spending big bucks in the big players (Allen Bradley, Siemens, Wonderware. etc)?

I found a very affordable SCADA software from AutomationDirect: Point of View. Has anybody used or taken a look at it? Any other good inexpensive SCADAs you recommend?

Then, I guess there are free SCADAs around. Any recommendations?

Finally, what features should a good SCADA package offer?

Thank you!

dginbuffalo · Jun 1, 2015

Can you provide any more details that may steer one direction or another?

Number of points?
Remote connectivity and # of remote users?
Trends or historian data?
Running on one display or multiple?
Multiple protocols?

These are a few points to send you in the right direction. Don't know what you call a "small" project, but it could be possible to get away with a powerful HMI on some if it fits the scope.

Mark- · Jun 1, 2015

Hello,

>Any other good inexpensive SCADAs you recommend?

PeakHMI might fit your needs.

Elcan · Jun 1, 2015

dginbuffalo said:
Can you provide any more details that may steer one direction or another?.

Number of points?

100 for the small project.

Remote connectivity and # of remote users?

If remote means outside the plant, it would be a nice to have, not a must. Remote users: 1.

Trends or historian data?

As long as the info is kept on a hard drive, not need of fancy reports.

Running on one display or multiple?

2 displays.

Multiple protocols?

Most probably only EthernetIP.

dlweber · Jun 1, 2015

Just remember the suits.

Right now there is not a need for fancy report, but in my experience when the higher ups find out there is data sitting somewhere they will eventually want to see it all fancy and pretty....regardless of whether they can understand what it means. Then once you make look nice once they will want to see it twice a year....someone will say why not quarterly or monthly, then someone will bring up the fact they read in article or heard in a conference that other companies have it like that all the time, we paid for the software why aren't we doing that (they won't distinguish between which software they bought, they just know they paid for some software that uses some of the same keywords)

dginbuffalo · Jun 1, 2015

Elcan- On my one display question i wasn't too clear. I meant like a thin client or another computer somewhere else in a plant that may look at the same set of screens. I wasn't sure if that's what you were referring to or if "2 displays" means 2 graphic pages.

It almost seems like you could get away with an HMI and log data to a SD/USB/flash card.
Especially if you needed an operator interface on the site anyways. I know the Red Lion can be set up in different ways to push the data to an FTP server or use the webserver to retrieve data. It's also pretty flexible if you need to convert a modbus protocol,etc. I use AB a lot too, although i actually don't find it as flexible as the Red Lion especially if anything strays from the AB realm.

The SCADA is usually a different story because you can use OPC to connect to some different things and it may be better for keeping historical data on the network somewhere if you need it too. It's probably more pricey of an option it just depends on what makes the most sense.

brewerman · Jun 1, 2015

We have used Wonderware for years but last year began looking into alternate options as we are a small company and they are just too expensive. We have had great experiences so far with AutomationDirect products and support that I was willing to give their Point of View software a try. Quick research showed it is a subset of Indusoft WebStudio which is well known and supported. This was important to me as I did not want to recommend a new product replacement that was too new and buggy or could potentially not survive on the market and lose product support. That being said I tried the free demo software and was impressed enough to give it a try. I developed a 600+ tag project and we are happy with the results. Some things it does very very well, others not so much, but for the price we have decided to use it for our next two projects this year.

Again I have only used Wonderware and Point of View so my experience is limited, but we are quite pleased with the POV software. We did have a major issue during development that would lock up our system, AutomationDirect was quick to respond and was able to resolve the issue (ultimately it was my error not the software) so the support was great for us, and FREE!

I don't have any affiliation with AD, these are just my thoughts. When I was looking at options, there were no reviews about POV so I thought I would offer my experience to you.

Hope that helps.

-J-

Elcan · Jun 1, 2015

dlweber said:
Just remember the suits.

Right now there is not a need for fancy report, but in my experience when the higher ups find out there is data sitting somewhere they will eventually want to see it all fancy and pretty....regardless of whether they can understand what it means. Then once you make look nice once they will want to see it twice a year....someone will say why not quarterly or monthly, then someone will bring up the fact they read in article or heard in a conference that other companies have it like that all the time, we paid for the software why aren't we doing that (they won't distinguish between which software they bought, they just know they paid for some software that uses some of the same keywords)

I agree. It happens to me with other areas of control too. For example, they see me using a smartphone to control the machines and they want it right away.

Elcan · Jun 1, 2015

dginbuffalo said:
Elcan- On my one display question i wasn't too clear. I meant like a thin client or another computer somewhere else in a plant that may look at the same set of screens. I wasn't sure if that's what you were referring to or if "2 displays" means 2 graphic pages.

I meant 2 monitors, or actually 2 PCs with their monitors.

It almost seems like you could get away with an HMI and log data to a SD/USB/flash card.
Especially if you needed an operator interface on the site anyways. I know the Red Lion can be set up in different ways to push the data to an FTP server or use the webserver to retrieve data. It's also pretty flexible if you need to convert a modbus protocol,etc. I use AB a lot too, although i actually don't find it as flexible as the Red Lion especially if anything strays from the AB realm.

Actually, I found out that in many cases our customers ask for SCADA just because they had heard about it and they think they need it. I have convinced a few of them we can make it with, guess what, a Red Lion HMI.

.

The SCADA is usually a different story because you can use OPC to connect to some different things and it may be better for keeping historical data on the network somewhere if you need it too. It's probably more pricey of an option it just depends on what makes the most sense.

I would like to start using SCADA, even as an add-on to a PLC-HMI system. I love learning new stuff and I know we are going to use it sooner or later.

Elcan · Jun 1, 2015

brewerman said:
We have used Wonderware for years but last year began looking into alternate options as we are a small company and they are just too expensive. We have had great experiences so far with AutomationDirect products and support that I was willing to give their Point of View software a try. Quick research showed it is a subset of Indusoft WebStudio which is well known and supported. This was important to me as I did not want to recommend a new product replacement that was too new and buggy or could potentially not survive on the market and lose product support. That being said I tried the free demo software and was impressed enough to give it a try. I developed a 600+ tag project and we are happy with the results. Some things it does very very well, others not so much, but for the price we have decided to use it for our next two projects this year.

Again I have only used Wonderware and Point of View so my experience is limited, but we are quite pleased with the POV software. We did have a major issue during development that would lock up our system, AutomationDirect was quick to respond and was able to resolve the issue (ultimately it was my error not the software) so the support was great for us, and FREE!

I don't have any affiliation with AD, these are just my thoughts. When I was looking at options, there were no reviews about POV so I thought I would offer my experience to you.

Hope that helps.

-J-

This is the kind of review I was expecting. Somebody who has experience with something like Wonderware and who also tried POV. I'm glad POV worked for you. I also downloaded and took a quick look at the demo, and I liked it (keep in mind I haven't tried any other SCADA, though).
I'm also very pleased with other AutomationDirect products. I would like to try the new Productivity 200 PLC.

dmargineau · Jun 1, 2015

Elcan said:
Hello all,
Sooner or later I will be using SCADA, and I'm evaluating which piece of software to use.
It will be for small to medium size projects, nothing too sophisticated, and I won't have a big budget. And here's my first question: does it worth spending big bucks in the big players (Allen Bradley, Siemens, Wonderware. etc)?

I found a very affordable SCADA software from AutomationDirect: Point of View. Has anybody used or taken a look at it? Any other good inexpensive SCADAs you recommend?

Then, I guess there are free SCADAs around. Any recommendations?

Finally, what features should a good SCADA package offer?

Thank you!

Even if some of my colleagues have already labeled me as "Anti-Igniti(on)" I would recommend the Inductive Automation Ignition SCADA in its lowest activation levels "The Works Lite" or "The Works Limited".

https://inductiveautomation.com/pricing/ignition

It is a bit of a different creature than other mainstream SCADA packages, however, I found it very nimble, modern in its approaches and could always be upgraded on the fly if the situation requires it.

Archie · Jun 1, 2015

Elcan said:
Then, I guess there are free SCADAs around. Any recommendations?

AdvancedHMI would fall into this area. Don't be misled by the price, it really has quite a few features built in including Ethernet/IP drivers for all of the AB PLCs. It uses Visual Studio as it's development environment, but does not require code writing to build applications. After installing Visual Studio Community Edition (which is free), it takes less than 5 minutes to have your first HMI/SCADA application running.

JordanCClark · Jun 2, 2015

dmargineau said:
I would recommend the Inductive Automation Ignition SCADA in its lowest activation levels "The Works Lite" or "The Works Limited".

+1.

dmargineau said:
Even if some of my colleagues have already labeled me as "Anti-Igniti(on)"

Not at all. Just a different perspective.

Elcan · Jun 2, 2015

dmargineau said:
Even if some of my colleagues have already labeled me as "Anti-Igniti(on)" I would recommend the Inductive Automation Ignition SCADA in its lowest activation levels "The Works Lite" or "The Works Limited".

https://inductiveautomation.com/pricing/ignition

It is a bit of a different creature than other mainstream SCADA packages, however, I found it very nimble, modern in its approaches and could always be upgraded on the fly if the situation requires it.

Thank you for your recommendation. I was wondering if the $2,600 tag price means Ignition is five times better than Point of View.

Elcan · Jun 2, 2015

Archie said:
AdvancedHMI would fall into this area. Don't be misled by the price, it really has quite a few features built in including Ethernet/IP drivers for all of the AB PLCs. It uses Visual Studio as it's development environment, but does not require code writing to build applications. After installing Visual Studio Community Edition (which is free), it takes less than 5 minutes to have your first HMI/SCADA application running.

I love free stuff, and I know it doesn't necessarily mean it is low quality. For example, I think Crimson 3.0 kicks the butt of many (if not all) the paid HMI softwares around.
My question for you, Archie, is: would AdvancedHMI do the same for me than a "standard" SCADA software? If so, would it be more labor intensive? If the answer is "No", then I'd find hard to understand why there are so many expensive SCADA packages in the market.

SCADA options.

Elcan

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dginbuffalo

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Mark-

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Elcan

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dlweber

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dginbuffalo

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brewerman

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Elcan

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Elcan

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Elcan

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